Being a consumer regarding a college education

jelomom2003 · 03-28-2008, 04:24 PM

With a consumer driven economy, where does this come into play with a university education?

Do the consumers (students with loans or parents paying bills) have a right and/or responsibility to speak out about what occurs on college campuses? Do we react passively, just feeling "lucky" to be accepted at an institution and take their actions/decisons as " the way it is". How do parents respond without being labeled "helicopter parent". We are consumers on almost every other front, but are we forced into silence on college campuses?

What do others feel?

thisoldman · 03-28-2008, 07:49 PM

A lot of questions that take too long to answer within the scope of brief posts.

How about, "Yep". Whether next door or 12K miles away, they really are on their own.

wis75 · 03-28-2008, 11:07 PM

Not everything does, or should, follow a business/consumer model. How about the residency rules for a say in states' policies- owning property will not give you the right to vote in state/local elections. Paying the bills is not the same as attending the school. Is your child your servant/slave because you give them money to spend on a college? Do you "own" your child as long as they are financially dependent on you? Most college students are legal adults, are you suggesting that money determines a person's legal status (think back to the days when only property owners could vote)? You can choose to not support your child if they don't follow your wishes but you can't choose to be their voice on campus or anywhere. Time to let go, you raised them and now it is their turn to make the decisions. You don't control them any more than they control you. BTW, the bill payer is not the consumer (addenda- I did not necessarily answer the question based on this last thought, but wanted to keep what I said, whatever logic I did/did not use).

emeraldkity4 · 03-29-2008, 03:04 AM

IN the K-12 setting I saw both parents and students involved with issues in the schools and the district.
At the college level, it is mainly students, although in more extreme cases you may see parents become advocates at the state or national level.

'rentof2 · 03-29-2008, 11:22 AM

I known situations where parents stepped in because they felt their child had certain issues arise related to physical or mental health that were not being sufficiently addressed by colleges' own health or counseling services. I think that's absolutely the right thing to do in most of the cases I'm familiar with. Everything from deepening depression issues to undiagnosed meningitis... so if that's what you're talking about, to hell with people who've fallen in love with the meaningless cliche about "helicoptering."

But I'm not sure what you are talking about. Do you mean things like availability of classes or grading policies or expecting better dorms or college budgetary issues? Not sure. But in those cases I think it's more like a store: If you don't like what's on offer, shop elsewhere.

For students that's another matter. I think it's great when they --if they feel so inclined-- get up in the school's face for things they feel are important. Protesting over college clothing made in sweat shops, reduced budgets for campus clubs, policies regarding privacy, college spending priorities, or anything else.

jelomom2003 · 03-29-2008, 11:25 AM

My questions were not intended to suggest a parent over riding a student with their financial investment.

I am questioning how University's can continue to increase costs yearly without the consumer (student/parent) speaking out for controls. The cost of education continues to climb at rates that are unprecedented and without match in income growth and we, the consumers sit quietly by, moaning, but not putting our voices out there. How will the escalating costs of higher education be contained. I certainly hope not by government involvement.

Money speaks and whomever is paying the bills, be it student/parent/or combination, is letting the rising cost of education go unchecked by remaining quiet and just happy to be accepted at the college of choice.

'rentof2 · 03-29-2008, 12:53 PM

Ah... well, it's like the price of gas: when will people start driving a lot less? $5/gallon... $10?

I don't necessarily think government involvement is a bad thing. Government involvement brings us state university systems and community colleges -- the places MOST people get their higher education. I think public pressure on the gov't to keep public college costs in check and keep them adequately funded is a profoundly important idea.

Private is, well, private. They can do what they want, although I do support the congressional investigations into what they're doing that benefits students with some of these monstrous tax-free endowments that get fatter and fatter. Other than that, yeah, it's probably very consumer driven, and as long as people are willing to pay the price the price will go up. When they are not willing in sufficient numbers, it will go down.

There was an interesting thing I read about a while back. A couple private colleges, worried about spiraling costs, actually lowered their tuition. The year following that move applications actually dropped. When they raised their tuition back up (but increased financial aid) the apps went back up. Seems people feel like if it doesn't cost a lot it's not as good. Human psychology is a wonderful thing.

1of42 · 03-29-2008, 01:40 PM

You're welcome to be a consumer, but elite college education right now is a seller's market, so your ability to influence them (the colleges) is essentially negligible.

jelomom2003 · 03-29-2008, 07:56 PM

rentof2-

It is my understanding that the congressional investigations on the huge and growing endowments of non for profit universities (mainly the Ivies) is driving the recent changes in many Ivies tuition offers. The investigation says that if these schools are really not for profit, than they need to stop making profit and stay in the business of educating students. thus the recent offers of free tuition to those under certain income brackets.

1of42 -
I am afraid you are absolutely correct and it scares the hell out of me. We personally have seen a 11.5% increase in 2 years, with no end in sight. As long as we pay the bills (somehow!), the college market won't change. The question is -when is enough. . . .enough?

thisoldman · 03-29-2008, 11:38 PM

The Government is involved through its guaranteed loan programs and grants. W's fiscal policy of spending allows profits to be made while exposing the taxpayer to defaults and subsidizing low interest loans.

The Government is also heavily involved in the mortgage crisis by allowing shady loans be made by government chartered mortgage entities. The Government guaranteed a market for loans.

Stop the guarantees and subsidies, the COA increases will stop. Unfortunately only those who have saved and invested will be the only ones attending college.

jelomom2003 · 04-09-2008, 09:49 PM

This article is an interesting read. I am afraid that any changes which might occur will too late for us.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/ed...in&oref=slogin

07DAD · 04-10-2008, 05:56 AM

I wonder if anyone on CC was in college administration in the late 1960's when the selective service first draft occurred. College enrollment was still a deferment from being drafted and males flocked to college. Then the draft occurred. Those students who got high draft numbers were basically "free" and more than a few immediately dropped out. I wonder if this had any effect on tuition.

One guy at Emory dropped out and got back the majority of the first semester's tuition (paid by his parents). Off to Europe he went w/o parents knowing anything. Only several weeks later did they catch on.

standrews · 04-10-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Money speaks and whomever is paying the bills, be it student/parent/or combination, is letting the rising cost of education go unchecked by remaining quiet

The bill payers extend beyond students and parents. Alumni contribute money and some bestow large gifts. Over time endowments grow and pay for faculty chairs and student scholarships. The state and federal government also pay some of the bills, and by extension the taxpayers, whether they have kids in college or not. Private companies pay for research at many institutions. The institution has a responsibility to all of these bill payers. In addition institutions that need to borrow money have a responsibility to their lenders. While students and parents may pay the lion's share of the bills, they are also the most transient of the bill payers. They goals of the institution extend beyond the 4 or 5 years it takes the student to pass through, although the school hopes the student will provide further support of the institution for a lifetime. Consequently, the voice of students and parents is only one of many.

A recent example of the voices of students, alumni, donors, and government all speaking out occurred at William and Mary over the past year and a half. It ended with the president being removed despite broad support from the students.

jelomom2003 · 04-10-2008, 11:43 PM

standrews-
Very insightful view on the "bill payers".
Do alumni contribute because they feel a debt to the school or to they contribute as an insurance policy to keep the school's name a positive image builder?
I am amazed with the force that private universities approach alumni with annual giving goals. My D, a freshman, is already being asked to contribute.

Laylah · 04-11-2008, 08:55 AM

This is a really interesting topic, because the UK only introduced tuition fees for universities a few years ago (all degrees were government funded before that, and all students had living costs stipends), and universities are beginning to feel the 'consumer crunch.'

BBC NEWS | Education | Students tell of fees resentment

Students are becoming a lot more assertive about value for money in education, and universities don't like it. They aren't used to competing in a market. Frankly, tough luck, I think. If universities want to treat students like consumers, they have to be prepared for students to act like consumers.