Lefty Academics

[historymom]

Here I thought this thread was going to be about scholarships or special programs for the left handed

[JHS]

What I see -- a lot -- is that conservative kids learn their argument style from conservative talk radio. It sounds brilliant as long as the producers get to control things so Rush (or whomever) always has the last word, and no one gets to call him on his unsupported premises or lack of logic. That doesn't fly in an academic setting. Also, being rude and disruptive doesn't go down so well when you don't control the room. Conservative arguments can be made in a way that doesn't insult other people, but they often aren't.

I'm not saying that's Duerre's problem, but it is a common one.

I have never -- never -- seen an intelligent conservative get graded down for disagreeing with a professor. Liberal professors, because they are liberal, tend to like a variety of views, and because they are professors, they want their students to learn how to make convincing, nuanced, original arguments, not rote party-line regurgitations.

Also, "the best colleges reputation wise tend to be the most uniform in their liberal views"? Wow, there's a well-supported generalization. How about Stanford, home to the Hoover Institute? Or Princeton, where Bush's Fed Chairman lately taught, and Bernard Lewis and Cornel West could rub elbows at faculty meetings? How about the University of Chicago? Dartmouth, where the kids on the Dartmouth Review love to whine but seem to have a lot of company (and a lot of fun)? I don't know so much about the Yale faculty right now, but no one ever called Donald Kagan or Robin Winks "liberal".

[UCLAri]

JHS,

I've been graded down for not agreeing with a professor's line. Not necessarily a conservative/liberal line, but a theoretical one. And I'm a graduate student.

I haven't seen a political line get graded down, but I know it happens. Perhaps not often at better schools, but I know it happens.

[Duerre]

You named a few examples, but statistically, the vast majority are Democrats. I'm also shy, so that may be part of the reason why I'm feeling so discouraged...I am self-conscious about what other people think, so maybe I've sometimes written papers with a liberal perspective in the past because it feels "safer".

[Duerre]

As opposed to taking a risk.

[Duerre]

I know a lot of you have kids in college. Does it ever bother you that there isn't a greater variety of viewpoints among the faculty?

[UCLAri]

Duerre,

If you define "variety" by party line, then yes, it may be a problem. But if you take a broader view of what "variety" can mean, then you'd realize that most top schools have an incredible variety of viewpoints, even if they don't all take a pro-life/choice, pro/anti-Iraq, intelligent design/evolution line. Look at the passionate debates between faculty in the same field, and you'll find that differences of opinion can be far more than just nuance.

[goaliedad]

I have never -- never -- seen an intelligent conservative get graded down for disagreeing with a professor. Liberal professors, because they are liberal, tend to like a variety of views, and because they are professors, they want their students to learn how to make convincing, nuanced, original arguments, not rote party-line regurgitations.

Had it happen myself... Took a C in an upper division Econ course because of it as well. Had an ex-political appointee as a prof who was keen on models proving that increasing government spending can increase growth over time. Took his mathematical model to its extreme and showed how infinite growth in governmental spending would create infinite growth, so we could all go home and watch TV. I guess he didn't appreciate the fact that I was demonstrating that markets behave on "Game Theory" (a business theory he had never studied) and adjust to players taking extreme positions. In the case of extreme government spending growth, inflation is the resulting effect from the other players (besides government) in the economic game.

Yes, I presented his argument (as asked in the assignment) but refused to play the party line and throw common sense out the window, presenting my refutation of the theory as a counterpoint. No red ink where I presented his view, but plenty of it where he had unkind (and insulting) things to say where there was disagreement. Of course, complaining about the grade was useless.

When you get to the extreme campuses, tenured professors who are true believers often get carried away. If you (like I was) feel putting your thoughts on paper is more valuable to you than your grade, it is all good.

BTW, I had another (not a true believer) professor look over my work at a later date (a non-graded copy). He thought it was particularly well done. It just goes to show that everyone has an opinion just like they have a belly-button. Just some people don't like my belly-button...

[newmassdad]

Does it ever bother you that there isn't a greater variety of viewpoints among the faculty?

Not at all. I hope my daughter is enough of a critical thinker to sort out the BS from the nuggets of truth, but even if she gets "brainwashed", I don't care.

We have bigger problems than worrying about labeling faculty as too left or too right. We have a deficit that is killing us. The dollar is not worth cr** internationally. Our country is despised everywhere outside its borders. Healthcare is broken such that we aren't even in the top ten in life expectancy and our prenatal care is 2nd world overall.

so do I care about lefty professors? You gotta be kidding.

[UCLAri]

"Game Theory" (a business theory he had never studied)

I don't know that I would call game theory a "business theory," per se... Also, markets only operate on a game theoretical basis if you buy into rational choice.

Now there's where you get yourself into A LOT of trouble in econ departments. I argued once with one of the economic profs here at UCSD about rational choice. I played Devil's Advocate, saying that it's complete hogwash because of x, y, and z. I'm just glad I didn't argue that on a paper, as I could tell that I wouldn't have done so well.

[jude_36]

You wrote "Just curious, how many of you are from the NE or California, or some other liberal place?"

Wait, wait wait a minute. I'm from the northeast, New Hampshire to be exact, and out of ten counties, ONE is predominantly democrat. The rest are republican. Ever read about Yankees? They're pretty conservative. I know lots of Massachusetts and Connecticut is liberal, but Maine and New Hampshire aren't.

As for the rest of what you said, I agree with Curm and owlice.

[UCLAri]

California is liberal at the major urban centers, but I can guarantee you that most of the rural outskirts and central valley are not what most people would call "liberal."

[Duerre]

How do you define liberal and conservative then?

[JHS]

UCLAri, it's been a long time since I was graded at anything, but once upon a time I was graded down for agreeing too much with a professor's line. It was emphasized to me that I needed to think for myself, and to be MUCH more familiar with competing theories before I rejected them out of hand. Some of my teachers were professional polemicists, but as teachers they insisted on sympathetic attention to a wide variety of theoretical positions that they attacked in print every chance they got. They didn't like short-cuts, and they weren't evangelists.

Academic politics and conventional politics don't always jibe. Two professors whom I described above were radically "left" in the politics of their field at the time, and fairly right-wing in their standard political views. One, although I believe he is a lifelong Democratic voter, is something of a darling of conservatives now. And a fellow student I had at least half of my classes with is now a right-wing pundit.

Duerre: Your posts taken together make me really sad. Jeepers, take a risk! That's a big part of what college is for! Just make certain to think through your arguments before you make them, and to make clear that you are not trying to insult people with whom you disagree. (Something like gay marriage is a big danger zone for something like that. You have to remember that some of the people to whom you are talking are gay, and what you are talking about affects their lives. If you have thought through your views, that shouldn't change what you think, but it sure as heck ought to affect how you express them.)

People love to argue, as long as its in a context in which they feel safe and respected. YOU don't feel safe and respected, now, I know. But I think you'll find that if you are not threatening other people they will welcome the chance to hear you out and try to convince you that you are wrong. And you should hear them out and respond to their arguments. There's no better way to make friends!

[mini]

Most American college professors are WAY too conservative for my taste, and would be seen as such by their international colleagues.