Another applicant rejected from all Ivies.

[cartera45]

Another lesson for kids. When Dad or Mom tells you to get ready for the photo shoot for the article about either getting in or not getting into college, run away!!

[Vango]

The quote from Ghosh's history teacher, Jason Flowers, sounds a bit weak: "Navonil is a really great, hardworking, serious student. He does kind of stand out." The phrases "hardworking" and "kind of," in a recommendation letter would be seen as negatives, I think.

[xiggi]

Talk about a red flag to Harvard that the son was a packaged deal! I wonder how many other calls the dad made to colleges to find out this kind of info, which admissions officers would view as an overly intense interest in working the system.

Fwiw, the multiple standardized tests CANNOT be the reason for the slew of rejections. The list posted by NSM is VERY typical for high scorers and, based on the research of Tom Fischgrund on perfect scores, this would not be seen as a negative.

The red flags and the weaknesses of the application must be somewhere else. It may help to remove the perfect scores from the original story and read it again. No matter how many times schools repeat that the SAT/ACT scores only matter THAT much, the myth that a perfect scores open the gate to heaven --ot to the Ivies-- remains as strong as ever among particular groups of candidates.

[StickerShock]

I don't think there's any negativity toward the boy.

Are you serious? There is plenty.

But that's true. Once Harvard announced in Dec. that families with incomes as high as $160 k could qualify for scholarships, 5,000 more students applied for the class that enters this year than applied for the one that entered last year.

It's not true. The $$ is need-based aid, not scholarships.

[anothermom2]

One more Harvard admissions story: This one comes from the dark ages (my day.) A classmate of mine who did very well on the psat and sat, NMF, ecs of the math nature, no school sports but the street hockey team that was big among my classmates, got into Harvard over the valedictorian with much the same stuff, who was a good friend, and was Honor Society president. The key to us kids back then? He sent in an "N" line computer program as (part of?) his personal statement. I don't remember who said it then, but someone said something to the effect that it is good to have teachers as parents (as that boy did; meaning what a hook - for those days.) A lot of the kids that did well in my public HS had teachers, and even a HS principal, as parents. I guess even back then there was coaching. Oh, btw, he was also the only one to admit to an SAT prep course back then. Professional packaging vs. homemade? Personally, I like the cartier boxes way better than the tiffany ones, but there is no accounting for tastes.

[Northstarmom]

Yes, but the need-based aid is called "scholarships". "Scholarship" aid can be either need-based or merit scholarships. Harvard's are need-based as is true of other Ivies.

Example from the Harvard Gazette, March, 2008, showing how Harvard refers to its financial aid:

" Harvard College tuition will rise 3.5 percent to $32,557 for the academic year 2008-09, and need-based scholarship aid will grow by 21.4 percent to $125 million. The total package (tuition, plus room, board, and student services fee) will be $47,215, a 3.5 percent increase over last year, among the smallest in the last decade. More than two-thirds of the Harvard entering class typically receives financial aid (including scholarships, loans, and jobs), with more than 50 percent qualifying for need-based scholarship assistance. "

"The key to us kids back then? He sent in an "N" line computer program as (part of?) his personal statement. I don't remember who said it then, but someone said something to the effect that it is good to have teachers as parents (as that boy did; meaning what a hook - for those days.) "

Back in those days, very few people knew anything about computers at all. A student with a demonstrated interest in computers would have stood out at many colleges. A student creative enough to include a line of computer programming in their personal statement would have stood out even more.

I highly doubt that his parents made him do that. He was way ahead of others in being a nerd. I'd imagine that if his parents had known about what he was putting in his statement, they probably would have tried to discourage him so he would do something more conventional.

[wisteria]

Another lesson for kids. When Dad or Mom tells you to get ready for the photo shoot for the article about either getting in or not getting into college, run away!!

First of all, he may not have known what the article was going to be about. The reporter might have approached him with a totally different angle, e.g., covering his Quiz Bowl team or whatever.

Second, the only quotes directly attributed to the student seem perfectly reasonable (and an excellent counterbalance to the over-the-top statements made by his dad, who--in my opinion, is exercising terrible judgment by posting his son's stats in multiple places on the Internet so that people can figure out his identity and connect it to the articles about the son. I wonder if the son knows his dad has been doing this.)

The two public media articles posted on this thread have exactly two quotes from the son, and they both seem to portray him as a reasonable human being who is dealing well with the difficult situation caused by his intrusive father:

I've already mentioned the quote from the article posted in the OP, in which the son just says it is "disappointing" while the dad says the son was "devastated."

I like this quote from the other article even better:

“It was disappointing at first, but then I looked at the colleges I did get into and I felt lucky to have choices,” he said.

He is currently deciding between Rice University in Houston, and Cal-Tech in Pasadena, Calif.

source:
Austin student scores makes the perfect score -- twice

[Consolation]

The idea that H is consumed with a desire to get kids who have genuine intellectual passion above all is simply not borne out in the admissions results of the sample of kids I know. They rejected the two kids who have A averages, high scores, and genuine intellectual passion in favor of the two kids with even better grades, slightly lesser scores, and a passion only for getting straight As. What the two kids who were accepted have in common is a) a very large dose of ego, which shows in a strong projection of an "I'm a winner" attitude, and b) the HS chose to send them to Boys State. In one case there was a track record of leadership, in the other there was none. On all of the other stuff--jobs, national/state awards, rigor of coursework, pursuing a passion--the kids who didn't get in at least equaled and generally surpassed the acceptees. Our small-town HS tends to pick out a favored few upon whom plums are bestowed. The anointed will be given the opportunities like BS or GS. It seems to happen every year, and it seems to start in middle school. Maybe it's the same everywhere.

Northstarmom would probably say that this shows they have superior social skills, and that might well be correct. But social skills and the willingness to be compliant and the lack of any smidgen of independence or rebellion do not a true intellectual passion make.

Certainly H is looking for very smart, successful kids, but I think they are looking for a certain type of personality also. And this boy doesn't really seem to have been their type. What is unfortunate is that his father has chosen to expose him to public humiliation, as if his life is ruined because he didn't get into H. For a kid with an acceptance from Caltech on the table, not to mention the other places, that is hardly the case. This is the problem when people fixate on a place like H to the exclusion of all others, without regard to its suitability for them. Neither H nor any other school is all things to all people.

[collegealum314]

"But social skills and the willingness to be compliant and the lack of any smidgen of independence or rebellion do not a true intellectual passion make."

Yeah, exactly. She seems to equate founding and running clubs and organizations with intellectual passion.

[coureur]

>>The Statesman article linked in the OP's post states that competition at Harvard has increased because the school has "increased scholarship" opportunities. The bad reporting continues....it wasn't too long ago that I thought ivy league schools gave scholarships.<<

It's pretty clear that the public in general and journalists in particular do not distinguish between scholarships and financial aid. Any money coming from the college is usually termed a "scholarship."

[Northstarmom]

"First of all, he may not have known what the article was going to be about. The reporter might have approached him with a totally different angle, e.g., covering his Quiz Bowl team or whatever."

I highly doubt that the newspaper, which has a well deserved reputation for high quality and ethics, would have done such a thing (Saying this as a person who even has conducted workshops there that had to do with interviewing).

What's more likely is that since the paper had done a story before on his 2400/36 SAT, the paper decided to contact the student to find out if such an exceptional student had gotten any rejections.

I also suspect that the paper may have originally learned of the student through the father, who may have informed the newspaper about his son's 2400/36, thinking that a newspaper article about the son's achievement could boost the son's chances of getting into places like Ivies.

"Northstarmom would probably say that this shows they have superior social skills, and that might well be correct. But social skills and the willingness to be compliant and the lack of any smidgen of independence or rebellion do not a true intellectual passion make."

I agree with you that politics (which could be rewarding students with pushy parents) is involved in which students are chosen to represent their schools at Boys and Girls state. However, once the students are at those events, their own political acumen, passion, and social skills are what causes them to rise to top ranks in those organizations.

The earlier post referred to someone who had risen high at Boys State and had gone on to Boy's nation. Such an achievement --which is based on one's interaction with peers at Boy's State -- isn't something that parents can orchestrate for you. Being able to do well at those events reflections one's own character, interests and leadership ability, particularly one's ability to connect with peers and get them to trust and vote for you.

"Yeah, exactly. She seems to equate founding and running clubs and organizations with intellectual passion."

If you're referring to me, you can check my back posts and you'll see that I've posted over and over that being a club officer isn't particularly impressive in itself. Many clubs are clubs on paper only. Many club officers do nothing. Being SGA president and planning prom and making a short speech at graduation isn't going to impress a place like Harvard, which is flooded with applications from SGA presidents.

What's impressive about an EC is having an impact -- on others (such as if one's mentoring has helped a younger student raise their grades or if one has organized a successful fundraiser or community service campaign) or upon oneself (such as if one has learned things about the world or about oneself that has resulted in one's pursuing interests in a certain subject or making certain career plans).

When it comes to things like Boys and Girls states, by their nature, their officers have to do things such as run successful campaigns based on research about the state. "Vote for me, I'm cute and will plan a nice prom" isn't the way such campaigns are run. Since those events have one student from each high school in the state, one doesn't win because one happens to be in one's high school's popular crowd. Consequently, being elected to a high position in Boys or Girls state is a notable achievement, the kind of thing that would impress a top college, though even such an achievement combined with high stats is no guarantee that a student will be admitted to a place like Harvard.

[anothermom2]

re post #141, this time I have to disagree with you northstarmom. Of course none of us will ever know the truth, and it matters not. However at my high school, which I never considered that great compared to some others in the area, you took computers as a full year course in 11th grade, and AP calculus as a senior, if you were on that track. All of those who did so had to know programming in "basic" (dinosaur bones). Anyway, I really did think that the teacher parents of that boy did help "package" him to the extent it was done at all in those days, i.e the Sat prep (one out of 500 or no one else admitted it). Anyway, water under the moat. I probably would have picked him too, packaged or not. After all, it was original, regardless of whose idea it was. You know, once an idea is out there, its fair game.

[StickerShock]

Northstar, you have made loads of assumptions about this kid, including statements that H knew he didn't have much "on the ball" and could tell he was packaged. (odd, it seems, that CalTech would admit a kid with so little on the ball.) Or this, "Yes, I can imagine someone taking 15 standardized tests." He took it three times, actually. Fairly common among ivy level applicants.

And now this in reference to the "N" line applicant:

I highly doubt that his parents made him do that. He was way ahead of others in being a nerd. I'd imagine that if his parents had known about what he was putting in his statement, they probably would have tried to discourage him so he would do something more conventional.

How do you know these things?

[ellemenope]

>>"It was disappointing to know I did my best on those two tests, got the best possible score and it still wasn't good enough<<

If he had been here on CC, he would know that perfect test scores are NOT ENOUGH, by a long shot. The fact that he'd say such a thing makes me believe that he really didn't have a handle on super selective college admissions.

No tears here. I think that he'll do just fine at Caltech...

[mathmom]

I think Harvard looks for a mix of types, but they do tend to look for some sort of spark. They like a well-balanced class. Some are bright and well rounded, some are active leaders, some are one sided with a specific academic interest. Last year, our high school had two admits. One was the valedictorian, nice well-rounded kid, but known to be a bit of grade grubber. The other was my kid who was number 8, because he couldn't be bothered to go for A's in English. He presented himself as a total computer nerd (yes he included a computer program in his essay), his ECs were all academic in nature, and he had the plus of being a double legacy. He told his interviewer he hadn't applied SCEA because Harvard wasn't his first choice. I suspect Harvard rather liked his confidence and willingness not to play the game. (BTW my son was deferred and ultimately rejected from Caltech, I have the highest respect for a kid who convinces them that they should be accepted.)

This kid sounds like a very good fit for either Caltech or Rice. I think he's got great choices.