Another applicant rejected from all Ivies. - Page 25

wedgedrive · 05-08-2008, 08:15 AM

F.O.LTS, I thought students pretty much HAD allow confidentiality for their recommendations, that colleges would dismiss them otherwise! i have been wondering how people knew if their rec's were good or not! Am I naive or what?

momofnewP · 05-08-2008, 08:20 AM

I wondered, when I read this story originally, how Ghosh's interviews went. And also, if his father tried to be part of them. There is something to be said, IMO, for a kid who has to ride his bicycle or otherwise make his/her own arrangements to be part of EC's etc. Parents, even rich and involved, may have other kids and they have to juggle getting the kids to where they have to be.

There is something about the father quitting his job for the PURPOSE of shuttling his son around that just strikes me as a negative. Almost as if his son's success was also his success. Hard to put my finger on it.

Hunt · 05-08-2008, 08:31 AM

""The secret of success is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made."

Attributed to Groucho Marx, George Burns, and maybe others. I guess sincerity is a lot like authenticity.

nngmm · 05-08-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

I thought students pretty much HAD allow confidentiality for their recommendations, that colleges would dismiss them otherwise! i have been wondering how people knew if their rec's were good or not! Am I naive or what?

Some teachers let students read their recommendations, even though the "confidentiality" signature is there. The students can't demand to see the letters once they've signed, but if the teachers offers it to them, that's legit...

nngmm · 05-08-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Immigrants should not waive confidentiality. They cannot predict the new culture well enough to guess who might say what. They need a review.

What does it have to do with being immigrants?? If anything, it would be harder for an immigrant to "decode" a lukewarm rec based on "code words" that sound positive to those unfamiliar with the "code" (Unfortunately for the students, many rec writers are not familiar with the "code" either, and can hurt the student's chances without realizing it...)

A lot of schools will disregard recommendations if confidentiality signature is missing (or so they claim).

anothermom2 · 05-08-2008, 09:11 AM

I haven't caught up on all the posts I've missed on this thread, so forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this. I think that students and parents need to stop thinking of the application process as a kind of race to be won or olympics type competition. By this I mean that in a race .001 better time will win, but a .001 GPA improvement really should not make all the difference. In many schools that rank, the difference between #1-10 in the class can be thousandths of a point in the GPA. Likewise, a 790 versus 800 (or heaven forbid 720) really does not show that one person is "better" than the next. I see that the SAT thread has a debate over the example of a sublime environment. Isn't this somewhat subjective? I love an ocean view; someone else loves the mountains. Is 400 hours of community service that much better than 100? What was the service performed? How much of an impact did it make? How personal was the involvement? In the end, when there are so many 4.0, 1600/2400 candidates, only the intangibles will distinguish one from another.

anothermom2 · 05-08-2008, 09:28 AM

Sorry to post right on top of my last reply, but I was interrupted by a pesky phone call before I was really finished. Back to the SAT questions, I really am confused. I realize that there is probably on objective answer re: what's sublime, but if you got it wrong, does it mean you are less qualified? Do you really have less understanding of the vocabulary? Is the person who gets it right that much better than the one who doesn't?

That reminds me of a test I was given in college. This was an intro course in Natural Resources. One question was true or false "Bread comes from a store." Now perhaps I am an idiot, but I still don't know what the professor was looking for. The reason I never got his answer was I threw the test in the trash and immediately ran to drop the class. This being one of the biggest "gut" courses (hah.) I felt that the question was either facetious, or better suited to a philosophy course. I now know (which I did not know then) that per a jewish prayer, bread comes from the earth (loosely translated.) I did not want to be tested like this, so I dropped the class.

collegealum314 · 05-08-2008, 10:05 AM

"There are no scholars or scientists at Elite U's"

I never really said this, did I? A bias against a certain group doesn't imply that none of them would be accepted. It's true that I did not write an essay supporting my statement.

Consolation · 05-08-2008, 10:12 AM

"""The secret of success is sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made."

Attributed to Groucho Marx, George Burns, and maybe others. I guess sincerity is a lot like authenticity."

The great poet James Merrill said, in regard to poetic voice, "Sincerity is a pose like any other."

Hunt · 05-08-2008, 10:14 AM

I feel confident that you can hire consultants to help you improve your authenticity, and some of them may even be able to do it.

CTTC · 05-08-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

I feel confident that you can hire consultants to help you improve your authenticity, and some of them may even be able to do it.

Of course that can be done! I am surprised that some seem to think that it can't be!

ellemenope · 05-08-2008, 11:50 AM

I always liked the line, "you're unique-just like everybody else."

jazzymom · 05-08-2008, 01:21 PM

I think this dad is being way too harshly judged --- the price of failing in the mission I suppose.

So much criticism for quitting his job to chauffeur S to a research gig and maybe other ECs, yet parents who quit jobs or sacrifice time from a business to homeschool and presumably to ferry nondriving kids to activities, museums, enriching events etc. --- a recent example even taking annual trips to Ireland and elsewhere to allow a child to pursue a specialized EC --- are commended for their all-out devotion and risk taking. Why is this dad accused of destructive hovering and interference for helping his kid go to an after-school activity, but parents who take their kids entirely out of any established school program in order to DIY, with all the chauffeuring and parental involvement that implies, are not?

I can't put my finger on it, but there's a double standard here for someone who tries to take the traditional route --- keep kid in public (magnet) school and supplement at home and support the further development of his interests (science, medicine research in this case) beyond what the school can provide --- and someone who takes a much more nontraditional path --- to homeschool and travel the world to fulfill educational goals and passions.

And I don't think this kid was any more "packaged" than many students who get the benefit of what good prep and boarding schools provide --- not only superlative academic preparation, but also SAT prep and service learning (community service ) build into their everyday curriculum. Not to mention attentive one-on-one counseling for college admissions, school group trips to visit colleges, interview practice, and the close ties between some feeder schools' counselors and the admissions officers at elite universities.

So if students are groomed for the Ivy League by a prep or boarding school, this is not "packaging" in a negative sense, but accepted practice by those who can afford to do so. But a parent who tries to help his kid achieve the same goal through a magnet school and by giving up a job so he can be there to get the kid to his activities and to a place where he can pursue his particular passion, this is somehow unacceptable and worthy of derision. I don't get it, frankly.

I don't see whatt tkI

cartera45 · 05-08-2008, 01:35 PM

I don't care that Dad quit his job, but he should have kept it to himself and those close - it's putting it in the newspaper that is weird to me.

anotherNJmom · 05-08-2008, 04:29 PM

Very well said jazzymom.

Very few kids that I knew, who got accepted in Ivy, were not 'packaged'. By 'package', I mean parents and students started planning at least in 8 to 9 grade. They chose courses very carefully so to keep high GPA (some go out of their way talk to upper classmen, find out which teacher is 'easy on grade', etc.). They chose ECs very carefully so to be counted but would not 'waste' any unnecessary time on ECs that not mattered to them, but may be benefit the school overall. Some times 'take advantage' of ohters (ie. skip classes if they are not ready for the exams tomorrow; taking other kids' note but not willing to pay the same courtsy back). ... Nothing wrong with all these. But in good chunk of cases, I won't call 'passionate' but 'calculated'.