Man who sold gun to Va Tech Shooter Speaks there in favor of guns on campus

[mini]

"Also why should a college campus be treated differently then anywhere else?"

Maybe because it is? (in what other environment are there 70,000 rapes and 600,000+ sexual assaults a year?)

[smilodon]

where do you get those figures from

[1of42]

Originally Posted by smilodon

I was kinda replying to the question why do students need guns on campus. The thing about TV's was showing that we haven't banned other things that we don't need. Also TV's place a strain on the healthcare system, which drives up costs and eats precious resources.

But, as I pointed out, you can't take your TV and go out and make other people sedentary and fat, whereas you can certainly go out and shoot somebody if you want.

As for mini's statistics, who knows where he gets them. I've seen him pull out interesting, sometimes questionable numbers in a ton of threads, and almost never substantiate them. Oh well.

[mini]

Higher Education Center: Alcohol and Other Drugs on Campus-The Scope of the Problem <meta name="keywords" content="binge drinking">

It is 70,000 rapes/sexual assaults, and 600,000+ assaults per year.

(That's the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Addiction of the National Institutes of Health.)

It is likely, of course, that each student criminal commits more than one, so there are probably not 600,000 student criminals. But enough to require that every student carry a gun, and be trained in how to use it. It is especially important that every woman have a loaded firearm to fight off her drunken attacker.

(why you folks are so lazy, when you could have looked it up yourself, is beyond me.)

[raimius]

Are you seriously arguing that? If so, I apologize for misinterpreting your previous posts. My sarcasm detector isn't working so great today. Could you please clarify without any sarcasm?

[mini]

I thought I already made it clear. If the issue is campus safety and campus security, then merely allowing individuals to carry is discriminatory, creates a class of second-class citizens, and doesn't do what is necessary to keep everyone safe. This isn't about individual rights. Campuses ARE different than other places, and the response to campus crime should be calibrated accordingly.

If you think guns are the solution, then simply allowing individuals to carry them doesn't go nearly far enough.

[BandTenHut]

I assure you he is not using any sarcasm.

[Icarus]

then merely allowing individuals to carry is discriminatory, creates a class of second-class citizens, and doesn't do what is necessary to keep everyone safe. This isn't about individual rights.

Well fortunately, dripping sarcasm or not, thats not how this society works and it definitely isn't how rights work. You simply can't enforce force someone to exercise a right. The opposite is equally true. This is exactly about individual rights. People have a right to defend themselves and others from bodily harm or death. Implicit in this right is the right to the best tools (i.e. weapons) available for the job.

As has been said before, a gun is nothing more than a tool, without any moral status of its own. The demonization of guns in society today is sad.

[mini]

Well, then there should be STRONG incentives for females to carry guns on campus (maybe a break on tuition?), and for the school to provide the training and underwrite the costs for females so that they can exercise their INDIVIDUAL rights. The vast overwhelming of crimes by student felons are committed against females, and so the university has a responsibility to make sure they can protect themselves. It's easily accomplished, and if, as you say, guns in the hands of potential victims is a way to stave off crime, then you need to make sure that the known (rather than unknown) potential victims have possession of the means to prevent the criminal attacks.

If your concern really is campus safety (rather than some abstract concept about guns), you would show that concern by looking at ways to curb the acts of student felons. But I don't believe you care in the least about student safety - if you did, you'd be looking toward measures that would increase overall campus security, not creating a subclass with more power than another.

[chuy]

If somebody want to kill people they're always going to find a way. At the end of the day it's not a terribly difficult thing to do. Guns are one tool that you can use to do this. Knifes also work. Simple to obtain explosives in a jar of nails would work. But guns are not evil, and knifes are not evil, and those explosives and nails are not evil, the people who use them to hurt or kill others are evil. Guns have their place in society and I truly do believe that one of those places is concealed carry. To protect people who are not evil from those who are.

[RacinReaver]

I wonder how many of those females that were raped/assaulted were in a state of mind in which they could use a firearm responsibly in the first place.

Assuming mini isn't just trolling the thread.

[mini]

Well, if guns are protective as is claimed, there's a way to find out, isn't there? Remember, it may be the threat that women students have guns that will be enough to stave off the student felons.

Campus safety isn't about individual rights.

[Icarus]

Well, then there should be STRONG incentives for females to carry guns on campus (maybe a break on tuition?), and for the school to provide the training and underwrite the costs for females so that they can exercise their INDIVIDUAL rights. The vast overwhelming of crimes by student felons are committed against females, and so the university has a responsibility to make sure they can protect themselves.

Why should the state (or university) be responsible for the individual?.... once again, the state is not responsible for ensuring that people exercise their rights - it is only responsible for protecting those rights. People may exercise them (or not) as they wish.

If your concern really is campus safety (rather than some abstract concept about guns), you would show that concern by looking at ways to curb the acts of student felons. But I don't believe you care in the least about student safety - if you did, you'd be looking toward measures that would increase overall campus security, not creating a subclass with more power than another.

There is no "subclass" if the right is allowed to be exercised equally (by anyone who meets the requirements of age, criminal history, etc.). The word "subclass" implies something that is forced on people. Stop twisting words.
It is you who wants to create a "subclass" of locations (i.e. college campuses) where people cannot use the same means of self-protection that they can elsewhere.

[Icarus]

Campus safety isn't about individual rights.

Well... what is it about then? Is it about curtailing personal freedom to provide a false sense of security, perhaps? Or is it something else? Please explain your view here...

[Icarus]

And in response to the actual topic here - The gun dealer did nothing wrong by selling the gun to Cho. He simply got caught up in an unfortunate set of circumstances. Like it or not, he is connected to the VT incident, and I think its great that he is speaking out in favor of allowing students to CCW.