Is a top dream school really better than a free ride at a state school?

[blossom]

But there's probably a reason Isaac Stern preferred a Stradivarius to the fiddle in the window of your local pawn shop.

It is silly and disengenuous to pretend there are no differences, just as it is silly and disengenuous to claim that a kid can't get a top education from even a bottom tier school. It is also silly to claim that all State U's are equal; the residents of Virginia and California and Michigan are frequently posting here wondering why all of us dupes are paying full freight for private U's.

[Christcorp]

Sorry Hunt; but that analogy has no useful purpose towards school. I tell you what; let's bypass "Blackie", Eric Clapton's Strat guitar that went for $950,000 at an auction. A lot of that price is for collector purposes. Let's stick with say a $2,500 CF Martin acoustic guitar. Very fine guitar. Notably, one of the BEST in the world. However; there is no way in the world that the CF Martin guitar would be worth a darn if used as the lead solo guitar in a hard rock band playing a hardcore garcia song.

That is the point. You can't claim that Harvard, Yale, any ivy or "Elite" school is automatically better than a state school. Best at what???? Developing ELITIST graduates who think they are better than some other people? Maybe; I'll give you that. Other than that; no group of schools can be considered "THE BEST". There are some things that Harvard is THE BEST at. There are some things that the University of Iowa is probably THE BEST at.

[Dad II]

let's discuss #22 here.

a) "For what I want to study". I think the statistics shows the average student change their major three times. As an 18 year old, how do you really know what do you want to study. An elite school may offer a whole bunch of majors that are among the best, not just one.

They said the teaching at University level is truely one step up than HS. One could be exposed to something they do not really know in HS. If you pick a school that is excellent in program B and woud like to do program A. You are out of luck.

b) As evident from UG admission, graduates from some HS have a higher admission rate than no name HS. So, going to an elite univ should definitely help one get into top graduate school.

That being said, why do you want to go to an elite school for graduate work? Why "When you graduate and go job hunting, they are going to look at your highest degree." if you think "There is NO conclusive evidence that an Ivy league school does ANYTHING better than a public school"? So, the name of UG is not important but suddenly the graduate school name matters?

Any science graduate student could probably tell you the assessibility to instrument and funding are critical. The elite schools in general have better instruments and the name professors to attract more grant money.

A student at state school may only have assess to one 300 MHz Solid State NMR with limited number probes for the whole school Top private schools may have a 400 MHz in each department.

c. As of this year, for low and middle income families, attending an elite schools costs just about the same as a State U. The services and support available at a rich elite school is better than a state school. Again, we saw posts here on cc about some public HS has one GC for 200 students. Some elite private HS have one GC for 50 students. Who will get a better service?

Also, I saw most of examples of State U are the like of UVa or U Mich, or UCs. These are just handful of State U that everyone agrees that they are at the same level as top elite schools. What are the admission rate for the honor program in these handful state U? I think it just as hard to get into them. Futhermore, the chance of geting a full ride at any of these handful top state U is probably smaller than getting into HYP.

[epiphany]

I agree, blossom. Depends on which "state," as others have said on other threads, as well. Your state may have no "top" schools at all, that are public. They might even be "bottom" schools. This is one of the major reasons for middle-class immigrants choosing states with better publics when they're choosing locations.

[gladmom]

My son got admitted to his dream school, an elite with new financial aid enhancements that before this year would have cost us $50K yearly. He also got into the engineering program at our instate flagship. COA there is $28+K.

The dream school is giving us FA so that the total to attend is $26K. The instate flagship gave him a $1K scholarship, definitely no offer of a free ride. The dream school is cheaper, and therefore an easy choice.

Since sending in college apps, my S has already changed his mind about his major. The dream school has exactly what he now wants; plus he can chose any other major at any time if he changes his mind again. At the State U he would not be allowed to change out of the engineering college until his junior year. This is another reason he has chosen the dream school.

The top schools recognize the problems middle-income people are having paying their enormous charges, and some of them are helping. The problems remain for the other top schools that aren't giving this extra aid yet (or possibly ever).

My D decided against her dream school 3 years ago when we were faced with paying full freight. She chose a different top school with 1/2 tuition scholarship and tuition remission from H's job.

[Alumother]

Oh.
My. God.

What are the Lifetime Advantages of Attending Top Colleges

*says she, now older and we hope, wiser*

[mathmom]

Christcorp it can work the other way too. I got an architecture job one summer for a small firm in LA. The guy said, I know you don't have the experience for this job, but you went to Harvard, I'm sure I can teach you what you need to know and you'll be up to speed quickly. I also got an architecture job in Germany. My architecture degree is from Columbia, but it was the Harvard degree that got me the job. I know, because my boss said so - I didn't bother to tell him that I didn't learn any architecture at Harvard. It can open doors, even outside Wall Street.

I don't know how my Harvard education compares with the education I got elsewhere, since I have little to compare it with. It wasn't perfect, but I have no regrets. I did take a similar level language class at a CA community college and can tell you unequivocally that we covered more at Harvard.

Oh and I didn't go to Harvard to get rich. And I didn't get rich.

[Christcorp]

mathmom; ummmmm; I'm pretty sure I did say that. There are definitely times where the name Harvard, Yale, etc... will give you the edge in getting the job. There are also times with the name University of Wherever will give you the edge over a competitor graduating from harvard, yale, etc.... I agree with you 100%.

[epiphany]

mathmom,

Prior to my D even actually registering for her fall classes, she obtained a job instantly that summer before freshman registration based ONLY on her acceptances to several Ivies. (Employer specifically said so.) Even my D was stunned. (Luckily, she also did a good job.)

[sax]

alumother: that thread was my first real indoctrination into CC. I will never forget it and also thought of it immediately when tax guy put up this thread.

"Oh.My.God." made me laugh out loud

Christcorp: It appears we pretty much have the same views.

[Alumother]

Sax, at least now we are laughing, right?

[2blue]

I just clicked on that link. 131 pages!?! I'm not going there... I don't know if I'd be wiser, but a person would certainly be older after reading all that.

[taxguy]

2blue, I thought the exact same thing. ^^^^^^^^^

[Alumother]

Oh yes. That thread aged me at least 2 years.

[mathmom]

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Except that of course a few of the elites have gotten a lot more affordable for the middle class.