Application rejected: too smart, too lazy, or just plain bored?

[zoosermom]

"and another kid who is less smart, learned LESS in high school, but earned higher grades. "

You have no idea how much any other kid learned in high school.

[horsegirl1050]

I'm a self proclaimed slacker, but the idea that this kid should get in on test scores alone is ridiculous.

I HATE when people go on about how they're so smart that they could do the work, if only they cared enough. Thats ridiculous to me...either do the work and prove that you're competent, or deal with the consequences. Don't complain because people refuse to look beyond the laziness and see your true "genius."

[kenf1234]

either do the work and prove that you're competent

Here is the specific example from the article. He actually did prove his competence beyond all the other students, but still got a C:

He's the only student in the history of the school to get a 5 on the AP chemistry exam, but this type of result never gets fed back into the course grade. He still got a C-plus

[Mondo]

kenf1234: Exactly, that is what the problem is here!!

[cptofthehouse]

Colleges are not just looking for the smartest kids. I've seen some of the smartest kids flunk out of college. They are looking for kids who can do the work, will do the work and do it well. If this young man had done something truly phenomonal in the schools' views, they might have let him in despite in grades. I'm not sure why JMU and VPI did not take him with his grades, by the way. I know kids with lower grades and test scores who got into those schools.

It is a loophole for kids like this to be homeschooled. I have a son who benefited from that situation. I homeschooled him in middle school after a disasterous year. So without grades or negative teacher's recs, he got into a competitive private highschool that would not have touched him with the sort of grades he tends to get. He did have very high ISEE scores and great ECs which were not overshadowed by a lousy school record being a home schooler.

The disadvantage about home schooling is that you then do not get the benefit of the grades and highschool facilities. That can be a plus for some kids and it can be difficult predicting which way it would go for your kid. I have friends who have some wonderful kids who are homeschooled that did not get the most terrific scores on the College Boards. Had they been in school, excellent grades and recs would get them into state U. Without the grades, they do not look like good prospects.

If you have a child who has an unusual profile, it would be smart to assess whether homeschool with heavy outside ECs would be more productive for him. Kids who are unusually gifted and don't get the top grades are often recognized if they do something truly outstanding. Otherwise they are not considered that special. If you can't get the grades, you better have something else in hand to show how good you are, other than the test scores.

By the way, this is an issue that parents who put their kids in rigorous private schools have. A number of those kids will not get into elite state universities or even their own flagship schools because they do not make the gpa cut off. Those same kids might have been in the top 5-10% or higher, had they stayed with their peers in a less rigorous school. Colleges who know these schools will take the grading scales into account, but if such kids apply to state schools who primarily go by the numbers, with the gpa or class rank taking a prominent position, they will be at a disadvantage and may not get in. This can also hurt in terms of getting merit awards and scholarships.

[Jolynne Smyth]

We have a similar sitch as the family in the article. Straight As in all tests in almost every (honors) class -- but failure to turn in homework which shot grades to low Bs or Cs.

It's pretty fruitless to complain; you just deal--hope the kid matures to understand the personal benefit if doing required work (no matter how dull); kicks it in college; then gets to a super-demanding grad school or job after college.

Plus--I know from my son's experience -- it actually (often) takes very little effort to complete the mindless, busy-work assignments (if concepts/substance come easily). Sometimes it's a matter of (self-defeating) principle on the student's part.

We try to teach the life lesson: sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.

That said, we would have loved to have intellectually gifted son in a super-academic high school. We didn't though -- so you just make the best of it.

[NewHope33]

"The family's frustration in his failure to gain entry into several Virginia universities is understandable but, I believe, misplaced. Yes, some of his high school courses may be too slow-paced for such a "gifted" person and, yes, he probably acquired more knowledge in his independent academic pursuits than he might have completing the required assignments of his high school courses. But the fact remains that he, apparently with his parents' support, chose not to complete the assignments he knew were mandatory for a high grade. That's his prerogative. But by exercising that prerogative he also must accept the consequences."

Yes public schools sometimes serve the gifted poorly -- my own local school system has recently eliminated ALL gifted and talented activities. But being bright (or rich or famous or athletic or powerful) is no excuse for failure to follow requirements. Contempt for authority leads to much heartache.

[kenf1234]

Contempt for authority leads to much heartache.

So dig that ditch and fill it in again. You will learn to respect authority!

[NewHope33]

Kenny - I was thinking more along the lines of "Yes Officer, No Officer" when you're being ticketed for something you didn't do.

[Chedva]

ken, you're right - a lot of homework is ridiculous and has no value for an individual student. But the individual student is not being tutored. That's why it's a class. The class cannot be tailored to him.

Perhaps he could have discussed this with his teachers; my d did. She was bored with the multiple math problems for homework, doing the same thing over and over again. She went to her math teacher and said, "If I get the first five problems of a concept and feel I've gotten it, can I stop? And if the review we do in class shows I didn't get those 5 correct, I'll do the rest of the homework the following night. Is that OK?" The teacher agreed. So there are options for the bright student.

Now certainly this very bright kid can learn the idea of consequences. He knew that not doing the homework would lead to lower grades, which could also lead to rejection from the college he wanted to attend. He took that chance, and he lost.

Digging the ditch and filling it in may not teach you anything. It doesn't have to. If you don't want to dig it and fill it in, don't. But don't complain when you fail (or are fired), or don't get the promotion, or whatever. (And by the way, you're wrong if you believe that all the tedium that occur in our jobs are "necessary tasks" that "need to be done." There's as much busywork, unnecessary forms, irrelevant paperwork in most jobs as you will find in schools.)

[kenf1234]

Kenny - I was thinking more along the lines of "Yes Officer, No Officer" when you're being ticketed for something you didn't do.

Doing what you're told, no matter how unreasonable or unfair, often has its benefits. This is news to no one.

But being bright (or rich or famous or athletic or powerful) is no excuse for failure to follow requirements.

The kid was trying to make the best of a bad situation, learning in spite of the school he was in. The point the parent is making is that she should have homeschooled him, then his obvious accomplishments would have been recognized, and he would have been admitted.

[Adultparentmom!]

"Busy work" does have a purpose. These assignments are meant to cement the information in the minds of the students. It is called repetition and it works. Many students benefit from them, even if they complain bitterly.

Sorry the little darling was not willing to complete the "simple", boring tasks. The college has every right to assume that the student won't be bothered with these "simple" assignments in their school either.

[calmom]

It was on the second page of the article, after the initial letter, so some of you might have missed that the parent reported in a footnote that "Virginia Commonwealth University just offered your son a four-year, full-tuition scholarship." Not a bad outcome for a kid with really mediocre grades.
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I have some comments. I have a really bright, high-testing son, who was bored easily by repetitive school assignments and didn't like to follow rules. However, he was also smart enough to realize that if he wanted to get into a good college, then his high school grades were important, particularly during sophomore and junior years, and the first semester of junior year -- during those key semesters he made sure he got all A's.

Not by doing all the assigned work, however. Instead he negotiated with his math & science teachers to waive homework and simply grade him base on exams and lab work. He was always convincing teachers to allow him to do alternative assignments or extra credit projects rather than assignments he didn't like. He has every aspect of the system figured out in detail -- for example, if a teacher graded on a rubric he would do exactly what was needed to qualify for the A and no more. He kept track of the points for every assignment -- so he knew exactly when he had enough cumulative points to allow him to slack off or ignore some assignment.

He wanted a college "exactly like his high school" where he could make similar agreements with his teachers, so he opted for a small LAC with a very flexible curriculum. Unfortunately, it didn't work the same in college - the profs weren't looking for a kid who could merely demonstrate that he had picked up the required knowledge, or who would go through the motions of meeting minimal expectations -- instead, I think, they wanted students who were highly motivated and disciplined and would consistently produce college level work. So that didn't work.

However... he has transferred to another college that is a lot more "like his high school" and done very well there. It is a good college but the part that is "like his high school" is that it is a place where it is clear that he is one of the smartest students there, so again profs are willing to make allowances for him. To his credit, the type of "allowances" he has sought has been to petition for waivers from introductory courses so he can take more advanced courses and to be allowed to carry a higher-than-normal courseload -- it's not that he's slacking off. It's just that the attitude of picking & choosing to do only that which interests him does not work in all contexts.

It would not work at many colleges where expectations are very high and where the student body is all extremely smart & accomplished. (i.e., most elite or top level colleges).

The problem is that the kids and parents made the mistake of failing to research to find a college that would fit the kid's attitude & learning style. If you have quirky kid, you need a quirky college. From the list of rejections & acceptances, we see a college list that didn't show a whole lot of imagination in that respect -- somewhere along the line he would have been served better if he had read Loren Pope's "Colleges that Change Lives" and Donald Asher's "Cool Colleges for the Hyper-Intelligent, Self-Directed, Late Blooming, and Just Plain Different"

There's a place for that kid; it just isn't Virginia Tech.

[kenf1234]

The teacher agreed.

Your daughter is lucky. An exception was made for her because she is very bright. But everyone else is telling me that being bright is no excuse for not following requirements. That the bright need to learn to dig their ditches.

[bethievt]

We certainly could do a better job of educating G&T kids in this country, but after attending 20+ info sessions at LACs, I must say, not one admissions person said, "Oh, haha--grades don't matter here." Not one. Some said SAT scores didn't matter. No one said grades didn't matter.

My gifted kid had the most trouble sucking it up in elementary school, so I advocated for him to minimize busy work. For example, he was a terrific speller who needed no work in this area. I asked his teacher if he could do a writing assignment instead of a spelling assignment and she said he could. He decided to learn about interesting animals and he researched and wrote about an unusual animal each week and drew them as part of the report.

By HS, most teachers were ok, guite a few were great. We have no IBs or magnets here in VT (that I'm aware of) and very few private school options. I think I'd have homeschooled in HS if my son had needed it, but by then the ECs were great and many of the teachers wonderful. He sucked it up with the less-than-great teachers. Kids do have to learn how to negotiate the real world. He wanted the college choices he wanted and he knew how to maximize his chances: taking rigorous courses and getting good grades--even if he had to do some boring work.