Support for the Kid that never gets picked

[Northstarmom]

Curious: Why did your D want to be an RA? If we know what attracted her to that position, we may be able to think of other things she could do that could allow her the same opportunities.

Being an RA really is different than being a good friend, so if she was attracted because she wants to spend much of her free time befriending shy students, for instance, there probably are other things that she could do that would be a better fit for her.

[Youdon'tsay]

Other people have alluded to this ... " ... if your daughter is missing out on some kind of communication skills, she doesn't interview well, she isn't good at bragging about her accomplishments, etc, that is something she needs to work on."

How do you encourage your children to "work on these things" without making it seem like there's something wrong with them? What does danceangel tell her dd? (Or me tell my son, who just doesn't have that bragging gene either???)

[Northstarmom]

"How do you encourage your children to "work on these things" without making it seem like there's something wrong with them? "

You are honest with them. You tell them that they are a wonderful person, and they need to work on their assertiveness so that others recognize their wonderful qualities.

At college counseling centers, more than likely she can get help via an assertiveness group or by meeting with a counselor. Lots of people have assertiveness problems, and colleges usually can help with this.

You also encourage her to interview -- including for opportunities that she doesn't want. The more practice she gets, the better. Role play with her, and help her practice giving full answers that highlight her strengths.

Encourage her, too, to take a theater and/or public speaking class. Both will help with assertiveness.

If she can get a summer job involving dealing with the public -- answering phones, being a cashier, being a camp counselor, she'll also develop stronger assertiveness skills.

I used to be very passive. Younger son also used to be very passive. The things that I'm describing are how both he and I learned to be more assertive.

It's not an insult to let her know that she's too passive. Assertiveness is a skill that one can develop. Not having it doesn't mean one is a bad person, just has weak skills at advertising oneself.

[jnm123]

Sorry about that, dance...

It's been eons since I was in a dorm and had an RA. He was a cool guy (drank with us, saved us on occasion from campus security) but I do remember that he ended up being the 'father-confessor' to the whole floor, that stuff alone took up a ton of time, and other than the financial benefit, it probably was detrimental to him grade-wise.

I know your D wanted it badly, but...(and this statement won't help your D get over it)...maybe it wasn't the worst thing that she didn't get it.

S'pose it's hard to see that right now, however...hang in there!

[Northstarmom]

"Or me tell my son, who just doesn't have that bragging gene either?"

It's not bragging to be able to tell someone about reasons to hire you. One needs to be able to talk about one's accomplishments and personality characteristics. If asked why you should be selected, one should say more than, "I don't know" or what's even worse, "I don't know, you tell me" (something someone actually said to me when I was interviewing them for Harvard and asked why they thought they should get in).

[huguenot]

I would tell her very lovingly that she probably needs help learning how to sell herself. I can not recommend highly enough this book: Amazon.com: Knock 'em Dead, 2008: The Ultimate Job Search Guide (Knock 'em Dead): Martin Yate: Books Its section on answering tough interview questions is absolutely invaluable.

I think interviewing is really hard for people who are very honest with themselves and for those who are not comfortable "bragging". If you are very honest with yourself and someone says, "Tell me about a time you failed," your mind immediately goes to your worst, most humiliating failure and how you didn't meet your own character standards. Someone used to the interview process learns to think strategically and is prepared for this question. They think, "Which failure can I share that actually shows them in my overcoming it a character trait they want to see for this job." See what I mean? Interviewing is a skill and it can be learned.

Knock 'Em Dead is outstanding for helping you to learn how to answer interview questions in the most advantageous way and to present your skills in a way they can be appreciated by others. I recommend reading it, then practicing your own answers for each of the questions.

In the meantime, I wish I could give you both a hug. I'm so sorry!!!

[Northstarmom]

S --who loves helping people and doing community service -- thought being an RA would be a wonderful job until he talked to a star recent graduate, who had been an RA. Star grad said that he had warned his students that he would write them up if they drank, but if they drank and couldn't get home safely, he also would drive and pick them up -- and then write them up.

He described having to do that, and having students even throw up in his car.

After hearing those kind of stories, S decided he was not interested in helping students by being an RA.

Interestingly, the star student graduate is extremely assertive, thick skinned, and self confident. Seems those were the kind of traits needed to do well as an RA, at least at S's school. I met some RAs who weren't like that, but my guess is that they were picked because of a lack of applicants who were very assertive, confident and willing to deal with the job hassles.

[Northstarmom]

Also, providing information about your background and accomplishments that tells someone why you should get the opportunity isn't what I'd consider bragging. It's explaining to someone in what ways you can help them. Framing things this way can help students who somehow think that describing their strong points in an interview is being a braggart. There's a big difference between idle boasting and selling oneself for a job or other opportunity. Job interviews aren't modesty tests.

[Youdon'tsay]

I agree, but I'm 45. My teen-ager thinks talking about his strengths and experience is brown-nosing. He has an interview in three weeks, and I'm just thinking about how to prepare him for it. I told him he'll need to research the company, etc. He acted like I asked him to cut off an arm.

We've actually discussed this as he has a lot of public-speaking experience and is quite good at it -- good tone, pacing, clear. However, in one-on-one situations, he is not nearly as confident and articulate. He admits that he isn't comfortable in situations where he has to extend himself personally.

[kenf1234]

My teen-ager thinks talking about his strengths and experience is brown-nosing.

The bird with the brown beak gets the worm! ;-)

[coronax2]

danceangel, I'm so sorry that your daughter didn't get the RA position. How lucky she is, though, to have a loving and caring mom to confide this disappointment. My mom was like that too. I could always count on her to understand and sympathize with me when I needed her. It was one of her greatest gifts to me. I do think there's a time to make give constructive advice on how to handle the situation, but today, she just may just want to know that you're in her corner. I'd follow her lead on this.

[Northstarmom]

"I agree, but I'm 45. My teen-ager thinks talking about his strengths and experience is brown-nosing. He has an interview in three weeks, and I'm just thinking about how to prepare him for it. I told him he'll need to research the company, etc. He acted like I asked him to cut off an arm."

I went through all of this with my younger S, who was by nature modest and shy (just as I was when I was young). Now that I think about it, I remember going through this with my mother when I was young. I thought my mother was over the top for suggesting that I research companies and sell myself in interviews.

I thought all of that until I noticed that when I did such things, I got opportunities -- opportunities that didn't happen for friends who didn't have moms who insisted that they do things differently. I also noticed that when I did things my way, I didn't get opportunities. After a while, I realized that mom had a very good understanding of how the world works and what I needed to do to get opportunities.

S learned some things the hard way when he -- at the strong urging of friends -- ran for some offices, but didn't campaign nor do anything to get votes. He seemed to think that because he was sincerely interested in the positions because he wanted to make a difference, and because he had a very strong record of doing community service, being loyal to organizations, etc., that he would win. He thought it would be crass to solicit votes because S thought things like that shouldn't be popularity contests.

Both times, his opponents -- who had weak records in terms of actually doing things that made differences -- but spent lots of time soliciting votes and bragging about what they planned to do -- won the elections. It didn't matter that S had done more real work that had made a difference at the school.

I agree that the OP should express empathy for her daughter, and should listen to her D's feelings. However, I also think the OP shouldn't wait more than a day or 2 to suggest that her D contact the people who made the decision to find out how the D could be a stronger candidate in the future.

In expressing empathy for the D, I also think the mom shouldn't say things like, "What bad luck" because that would indicate that the D has just repeatedly been a victim of fate. If someone keeps getting passed over for opportunities, there's a good chance that more than bad luck is the cause. The sooner the person finds out how to improve, the better.

[lextalionis]

Thanks for starting this thread, danceangel. It strikes a chord with parents and students alike because rejection/failure is a part of life to some degree for everybody. I don't care where you went to college or grad school.

Take becoming a lawyer, for instance. You can be the number one grad from Harvard Law School and editor of the Harvard Law Review and you still will lose cases for your clients at some point in your career. You can be the number one MBA grad from Wharton and still end up running a company that goes bankrupt or is bleeding money so badly that they boot you out.

People who don't fail in high school or college either haven't taken any chances or they're in for one rude awakening when they get out in the "real world."

Having interviewed countless aspiring young lawyers and aspiring coaches, danceangel, I can tell you that you've already received some excellent advice about suggestions you can make to your daughter, especially from Northstarmom.

Enthusiasm and confidence cannot be emphasized enough. Enthusiasm is part personality, part motivation. How badly does the candidate want the particular position? A big part of finding out the candidate's level of motivation stems from their knowledge of what the position entails. If the candidate hasn't done any due diligence about the position (through web site info, talking to people in the field, etc.), then why should I hire that person?

Confidence can be ascertained by the candidates' demeanor and qualifications. Danceangel, this area is where your daughter can really benefit from the resources available at her college to help her achieve some of her goals. Looking people in the eye, firm handshake, all those "cliche" things you hear about really do make a difference in hiring decisions.

As far as qualifications, you should suggest to your daughter that she volunteer in her areas of interest so she will be more qualified for the paid positions she eventually applies for. For example, if she's ultimately interested in counseling/teaching, she should volunteer at a local elementary or middle school. In addition to the intangible benefits she will receive as a result of helping others, she will learn invaluable skills that will be very useful to her future employer.

Speaking of "future employer," please make sure your daughter emphasizes how she can benefit the company, not the other way around. In other words, it's the kiss of death when candidates go on and on about how they want the job because it will be fun for them, they'll get in better shape, it will help them get a different job or get into a particular grad school, etc., etc. It's not that all of those things aren't true, it's just that employers want to know how the candidate will benefit them.

For example, then, in her RA interview, your daughter may have talked about how becoming an RA would help her come out of her shell, would help her meet more people at her college, would help her achieve her career goals, etc. Obviously, the foregoing is pure speculation, but it may help you to start thinking about ways your daughter can break out of her "trend" of not getting things that she's going for.

Of course, I completely agree that your daughter sounds like a WONDERFUL person with incredible resilience and tenacity. I agree with posters who suggest that your daughter should contact the hiring committee members for the RA position and request a meeting to discuss how she can improve her qualifications/presentation so she can apply for the job next year. I personally find it very impressive when candidates who did not get hired contact me and respectfully ask why they were not a successful candidate. It shows resilience on their part and a sincere desire to improve and achieve their goals.

Danceangel, best of luck to you and your daughter going forward! I have no doubt that with your help and her tenacity, your daughter will reverse the trend and become much more successful in achieving her goals.

[cgarrett101@aol.]

That makes me so sad for your D. I hope she doesn't give up- she will find her spot eventually. I never was recognized either, until I was in graduate school. Tell her to "keep on truckin'!"

[believersmom]

My heart breaks for you and your D -
Maybe it is time for her to seek out a mentor at school, a professor or advisor whom she admires and feels comfortable going to for guidance. Often times these people know of opportunities that come available and know how best to guide students into applying for opportunities.
I too was a kid never picked in HS, mostly because I moved around a lot. In college I discovered the big truth that people don't like to admit, SOMETIMES it IS about who you know. I had several big disappointments in college at the beginning until I branched out my circle of friendships to older authorative people besides my peer group. Through those connections I found out about a brand new organization which I applied for and was accepted AND I was encouraged to START a new organization which didn't exist until I created it. That's another thing, perhaps there is an interest of your D's that is being underserved at her school, why not start an organization of her own?

Please tell her (I am sure I speak for others here) that we believe there is something bigger on the horizon (and we know because we have been there) and that she should NEVER give up. If she still wants to be an RA the next year, apply again - sometimes just the fact that she didn't go away but came back still wanting to be a part of it can be a factor that tips the scales in her direction.

Again, I am so sorry...