Anyone else still hoping to get off a wait list?

[fireandrain]

Not sure where to say this, but I just heard a report on NPR (a program called On Point), in which the Rice admissions director said Rice is accepting no one off the waitlist, and that they actually received more enrollees (20-40) than they had budgeted for.

[JiffsMom]

Originally Posted by JHS

(JiffsMom: Care to elaborate re Northwestern? That's an intriguing comment. I would think that, for most colleges, getting a kid to attend the admitted-students program is almost tantamount to ensuring an enrollment. Why were so many of you turned off, even if only a little?)

In nearly all of the cases, it was because the students were genuinely torn between two very good schools - NU and insert school here - and were attending the admitted students program to tweak their final decision.

The schools that beat out NU were certainly noteworthy - Columbia, NYU, Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, WUSTL, UC Berkeley, U Florida, Wellesley, etc...

I can understand how getting a final impression of the campus and hearing the final 'pitch' would factor heavily into a decision that could go either way.

The general feeling expressed by many was that whoever was coordinating the event at NU was lax on matching overnight students to hosts (to the point that there still weren't matchups as of the morning of event day registration - causing confusion and necessitating missing some scheduled events to go back to Norris to get assigned a host that was too busy to spend time with the visitor, anyway) and students felt like cattle being shuttled around to generic presentations instead of getting the feeling that NU was trying to put their best foot forward, so to speak. Several people were also less than impressed with the classes they sat in on. Many, many people were put off by the fact that they had to pay a fee to attend NU's event, and finally - though this is a very trivial complaint - the bookstore ran out of the gratis NU Planners the admitted students were supposed to get so all they got was a Bic-quality disposable plastic NU ballpoint pen.

More than a few parents were grumbling about NU's cheapness towards their visiting admitted students considering how much tuition NU would be billing them. They felt that they would be making a serious mistake sending their kids to a school that had no problem emptying their bank accounts, but couldn't be bothered to make a good impression that would make the admitted students feel like they would be valued members of NU's community.

I don't know about the other schools, but the school my D1 decided to decline NU for had a much more organized, personalized, and impressive admitted students program, which ultimately inspired much more confidence in how that school handles their academics/business/affairs, etc. - and no fee was required.

Please note that this is not a general condemnation of NU, which is an exceptionally good school. They may have just been having a few bad days - it happens!

[Kathyc]

Re CPT's post--I think you're on to something about the three kinds of waitlist. It would be nice to know which bracket you're really in so that you could make your decision about whether to go on the waitlist. My daughter declined the Northwestern waitlist (although my husband and I would have been happy if she had stayed on it), but stayed on Cornell. We don't think she'll get off that because it's for Hotel, and almost no one declines Hotel. But she's already gotten a roommate off Facebook for her accepted school and is mentally already there (so much for AP exams).

[cptofthehouse]

The accepted students weekend can make a big impression on a kid who truly is undecided. It's unfortunate when it doesn't work out since it is not necessarily a reflection on the experience at the school. It's too often a tribute or liability of those directly interacting with the student guest. You get the wrong host with the wrong crowd, and it can be a turn off. Even if the school is right for the kid.

[JustAMomOf4]

How the heck do they know they have the space unless they have several lists, one that is an accept if they accept waitlist, one a go to if we run short on acceptees, and one a courtesy waitlist.

why would a school bother with a courtesy waitlist?

[oxyalum]

The courtesy waitlist is generally considered a place for a candidate with a special connection to the school or some other factor. They don't want to reject the candidate but they don't accept the candidate either.

Sure would be good to know which category my son falls into as well!

[cptofthehouse]

Justamom, there are many, many reasons for a courtesy waitlist. It is not considered such a blow to waitlist a kid as opposed to rejecting him. So a courtesy waitlist is often used for kids who come heavily recommended by people important to the university, often legacies. Also when a college has a special reason to accept a kid from a high school that is not an obvious pick, while not wanting kids who fit that category more, they will often waitlist rather that reject those kids. For example,Harvard accepted a kid who was ranked lower, with lower SATs than the valedictorian. The val was waitlisted. In that case it was truly a courtesy waitlist because H wasn't accepting off the waitlist. Everyone was on the courtesy waitlist in that case. But, the val from the previous year with even higher stats was outright rejected. No one else at that school was accepted that particular year. According to a teacher I know there, it is common, pretty much customary to waitlist the val if not accepting her, if other kids with lower ranking are accepted, at that particular school. Happens regularly. Also with athletic admits from a particular high school, if higher ranked, more academic kids are not accepted, they are often waitlisted.

In many ways, it's a nice way to tell a kid that he would have been accepted, if there were room even when you know there is not going to be room. The kids on the short waitlist often have a good chance for admissions. They may have a talent that the school is eyeing in case the yield is not good in that area. They are kids that they would have accepted but truly could not because of uncertainties with who would accept, and they be the first called if space does open up. I know that our school, there have been times when a college would call the guidance counselors and ask if a student was serious on a waitlist. That is a very good sign that he/she is in line for a spot unless too many kids accept (which happens).

That sometimes too many kids accept, is why I puzzle over this immediate waitlist, where kids are contacted before the class is formed. I know too many kids who are last minute or do not bother to return those not accept cards. How on earth could colleges know within such a short period of time that they could accept off the waitlist? It seems like the waitlist is getting a new usage.

Does anyone here know if in prior years, colleges went so quickly to the waitlist, well before the 5/1 deadline for acceptees? I don't remember this at all in my other two college app years.

[JustAMomOf4]

Okay - questions -

Why would any college care about the feelings of kids who apply?
Especially the Harvard's of this world who get "first pick". Harvard may not have known they were not taking from the waitlist until after they formed a waitlist - in other words did they waitlist EA applicants (they have EA right?) before knowing how the rest of the class would form.

I think colleges can go to the waitlist before May 1 when their yield is not what they would expect. If it gets to mid-April they certainly know from past data what they could expect to get by May 1.

My daughter is waitlisted. At not an elite school but a school that has "grown up" and gotten more popular over the past several years.
They have not gone to the waitlist yet but will "soon" - as per email last Friday.

I personally think if a college uses a "courtesy" waitlist it is demeaning and crueler than a rejection. I can't see any benefit to the school or the applicant.

[rodney]

What do you guys think of a waitlist that is three times larger than the size of the incoming class or one that is larger than the number of students who were admitted? Yes, I do think that some schools use courtesy waitlists for exactly some of the reasons listed above......Demeaning and cruel? Not really, just foolish...we treated them like rejections....

[jrpar]

Courtesy waitlists are often used for legacy applicants - the schools hope that the alum feels a bit better that their kid was waitlisted and not initially rejected.

[cptofthehouse]

Justamom, kids and parents do feel better about being waitlisted over being rejected. There is that feeling that the kid would have been accepted had there been room, and you know what, that may well be. It's just that there is no room, and not going to be any room. The kids that are rejected often feel that the message is that you are not a match for our school. Two different messages entirely. So a courtesy waitlist does not necessarily mean, they are just trying to save your feelings. THey are sending a message that way too.

Certain schools are good feeders to some colleges. They send a lot of kids to the college. Yes, even HPY like some highschools over others because of the quality of those apps. You can see which ones they are by where they go visit. You don't see them in certain schools are neighborhoods, and always in others. Colleges do not like to insult or embarrass those counselors because they often work with them. So a waitlist is face saving for all concerned when a kid who is highly recommended, high grades, high test scores, but just not with an extra that the school wants enough to sacrifice those basics and still accept another kid. It sends the message that the kid is qualified, would have been accepted because of his profile, but we needed some other students with different majors, skills, experiences, background, ethnic type to round out the class with lots of diversity.

Alums often feel better when their kids are waitlisted. Just not enough room, instead of no match.

[cptofthehouse]

Also, you are not told which waitlist you are on. So you always hope.

[CountingDown]

Cpt,
I'm not sure this kind of waitlisting is new so much as it has become more apparent given the rest of the admissions crunch.

At our house, S rejected his waitlist offer. In fairness, he was pretty ambivalent about that school all along, but after the school had personally recruited him and then deferred and waitlisted him, it was proof to him that they were looking for something he did not value nearly as highly as they apparently did.

[JHS]

1. The idea of a "courtesy" waitlist is courtesy not so much to the kid as to other people who may have supported the application (including involved alumni parents, grandparents, etc.).

2. So what if a college wants to use its waitlist in the way cptofthehouse describes? It's taking a pretty big risk, in that it may not get a crack at students it actually wants. But I can see using the waitlist as a legitimate strategy to find out which of a group of students really, really wanted to go to your college and which were using it as a safety, and baking that planning into your acceptance strategy. Also, leaving a little room to fix "mistakes" called to your attention by trustees, significant donors, feeder schools, etc. It may not be pretty or live up to the highest standards of transparency, but it may be an effective way to run an institution. (By and large, I'm thinking about LACs here, not HYP-type schools so much. The times when it has looked to me like something like this was going on, it was with LACs.)

3. Super-large waitlists at selective institutions:

The randomness of admissions at the top of the food chain means that the kid Chicago waitlisted may well have gotten into Princeton and has no intention of accepting a waitlist place. I suspect, even at Harvard, etc., that lots of students don't accept a place on the list, and that the percentage who stay on the list and would accept an offer drops precipitously once you go below the top 5-6 colleges. Furthermore, I think to some extent elite colleges may use the waitlist to fill unexpected highly-specific slots: if Harvard admitted two offensive tackles, and both wound up going elsewhere, and the football coach is sobbing on the admissions dean's doorstep, they want at least a couple of offensive tackles on the waitlist.

And, again, once you dip below the HYP level the math changes pretty quickly. There aren't many more (and may not be any more) than 8-9 colleges where more than 40% of the kids they accept RD enroll (ED programs often disguise an RD yield around 33%, even at very highly rated institutions). My guess is that you (if you're not Harvard) may need to offer waitlist places to 10 offensive tackles in order to make certain that you can get an offensive tackle from the waitlist if you really need to. Multiply that times the number of slots that someone may be tracking, and you get a pretty big waitlist, even before courtesy comes into play (or any other element discussed here).

[cptofthehouse]

I never heard of anyone clearing a waitlist so early. My oldest cleared one waitlist and it was not until well in the summer, which was very late; most waitlist matters were done by June. But cripes, I was reading posts of waitlists clearing pretty soon after some of the acceptances came out. Do you know in past years of kids clearing the waitlist before May 1?