Am I Trying to Motivate or Sabotage? - Page 2

tokenadult · 05-26-2008, 12:51 AM

A really thought-provoking essay I just read about how parents communicate with kids.

Lies We Tell Kids

It's just a coincidence that I was just reading the essay and am now returning to this thread, but maybe there is food for thought for us parents in the essay.

OmgItsCollege · 05-26-2008, 01:04 AM

I think it's definitely think that encouraging your son is a good thing but you should also keep in mind the possibility of him developing a dependency on external influence to get things done (extra-curriculars, academics, etc). This can potentially cripple your son when he gets to college, where he has to take the initiative to do the things he would normally need pushing for.

dmd77 · 05-26-2008, 08:55 AM

What happens when you make the simple statement "I think you should give serious thought to working on the school newspaper. I think you'd like it and so does your English teacher. I'd love to sign you up for the class, but I need your agreement." ?

Mombot · 05-26-2008, 09:50 AM

Wait--has the teacher talked to him? I have a kid with some of the same tendencies and it almost always works better when a teacher tells him he has a strength and they'd love to see him try X. When I do it the response is always "well yeah, you're my mom, you have to think I'm special."

Perfectionists are often underachievers. If your son is bright, he may have gotten used to getting good results in elementary school with little to no work. If he has a mechanical or athletic talent, he may have had early success in a sport or other activity--again with little work. These early "wins" can be a bit insidious, as it creates a situation where a child expects a flawless output with very little effort, and failure or even mediocre results (grades, or getting cut from a team, etc) can be a huge shock.

I wonder if your son is very talented--you said he had to be pushed into band and ended up section leader. Did he work his butt off to be section leader once he was in band, or did it just happen due to innate ability? If the latter that isn't good. He's still not figured out the effort thing, and on some level he may know it and be terrified of trying something where his innate ability will not bail him out.

I would fine SOMETHING he is not good at and make him do that, rather than pushing him into things where he's going to be really good with little effort. He needs to learn a couple of things before college: 1) working hard to master something is more important than the things you can master without a lot of effort 2) It is OK to be average at something--not everything can be perfect.

I'd also look for some resources on perfectionist kids and see if your son meets the profile, and if so how you as a parent can help him. The things we think of as "good parenting" can often undermine this type of kid and make them even more terrified of failure. I learned that I tended to give the wrong kind of praise--my son would often call himself stupid (he's NOT) and I'd point out how smart he was when he'd do well. That was the worst thing I could have done--it is better to praise them when they overcome their fear of failure and actually put themselves on the line and try hard even if the result is not stellar. I learned to praise effort, not results, and I learned to help him set appropriate goals.

ebeeeee · 05-26-2008, 10:54 AM

In the end, it will all work out. Keep repeating that mantra to yourself. I used to tell my friends with younger kids "Bribe, threaten, blackmail and mix it up so no one gets bored."

tokenadult · 05-26-2008, 11:48 AM

Hi, lilmom,

I see you just joined CC this month, so I'll post a link to a previous thread

Struggle and Challenge Are Good: The Work of Carol Dweck

that I think was very helpful.

Jolynne Smyth · 05-26-2008, 08:41 PM

tokenadult--I read the article several months ago--it's changed my parenting! I stopped praising intelligence and other innate, unchangeable qualities and started focusing on effort (& quoted that article to numerous people).

Then I read a great book & I pretty much stopped 'praising' altogether & started making 'substantive observations' etc. Amazon.com: Punished By Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes: Alfie Kohn: Books

mathmom · 05-26-2008, 09:25 PM

Jolynne you'd probably like Amazon.com: How To Talk So Kids Can Learn: Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish: Books as well.

Jolynne Smyth · 05-26-2008, 09:30 PM

mathmom--I've read F&M's books (including "How to Talk so Your Teen will Listen"). They are really excellent. I need to apply them more...but their ideas are 'in my head' every day.

kelsmom · 05-26-2008, 09:35 PM

Alfie Kohn????? His ideas on equality in the classroom are so offensive to me, I shudder when I think about them. One of our school district's (former) administrators quoted him to me ... that was when I knew I had to find another school for my D.

As far as motivating your S, OP - I know that my S does much better when it's someone else's idea (as opposed to mine or his dad's). For example, he was deciding on courses for junior year. I suggested that he take Honors Physics. He said that "no one" takes 2 science classes at once (he is also taking AP Bio). I told him that his sister & her friends all did. He said no & I told him to talk to his teachers. Next thing I knew, he wanted me to sign off on his course requests & I saw both science classes on his form. I didn't say a word. His teachers made sure he signed up for what he should have signed up for. If you would like to motivate your S, maybe you can enlist the help of people your S might listen to. It doesn't always work, of course --- my S won't do any school EC's. He is aware of how that might impact him for college admissions, but he is willing to take a chance. Then again, he DID say he will probably run track next spring --- so maybe he IS figuring it out on his own.

Jolynne Smyth · 05-26-2008, 09:41 PM

kelsmom--that's interesting...any particular book/article of his that you read & didn't care for? I know he's not 100% on everything (e.g. discounts innate gender differences...but I know that was written before he had kids, lol).

I really liked his 'get off the praise train' ideas (although I didn't agree w/all his points). I threw away my 'point chart' w/my daughter & things have improved re: her motivation to do stuff 100%....

kelsmom · 05-26-2008, 09:47 PM

Check out this article: Only for MY Kid.

Jolynne Smyth · 05-26-2008, 09:54 PM

I read thru it quickly....so, he's against (among other things) homogenous classrooms & tracking. I see the fact that all students should have access to creative, enrichment programs, but don't at all agree w/the heterogeneous classroom idea (I've written several letters to my school district opposing this 'cutting edge' idea that's been propogated by various principals in our area).

Agree w/you there...!

Still like his 'take the focus of extrinsic rewards in education' idea though. That shift has really worked for us, esp. w/6 year old!

kelsmom · 05-26-2008, 09:57 PM

I concede that he may have some ideas of value. Unfortunately, the context in which I was introduced to his ideas was not pleasant ... so I should probably have *bitten my tongue* (or the equivalent). Sorry to have gotten off topic! I just had a flashback to the black hole that was my D's middle school years & freaked out.

Jolynne Smyth · 05-26-2008, 10:00 PM

No problem! When my son's middle school principal told me ---after I called to thank her for offering 9th grade algebra II to 7th graders---that such differentiated classrooms were "on the way out and no longer on the educational cutting edge" I had exactly the same reaction! Led to a 45 minute debate w/her!!