Schools known for good merit aid - Page 45

mom2collegekids · 09-25-2009, 05:46 PM

Chuckledoodle quote:
>>>>> Son has 3.4 GPA, 31 ACT and 1940 SAT scores. He has taken 5 APs (scores for those are 2, 3, and 4) so far and will be taking 4 more APs his senior year. He wants to apply to WPI, RPI, VA Tech, Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette, which depending on the day and which posts I read here are possibly reaches. I think his safety may be VCU, ODU but not sure.

We don't have a lot of money to help support him in college and I feel that his #1 choice - WPI, may accept him but then won't offer enough money for him to be able to afford to go there. Based on our income, he will also not be getting any (or hardly any) financial aid but at this point in time, there's not much we can do about this.

He wants to be a mechanical engineer, wants to play club lacrosse (not division), be at a college with snow, and be on the east coast. Based on our college visits during spring break- he prefers suburban colleges with smaller classes and campuses that may have less than 10K students.

At this point, I want to make sure he will have an option of a four year college to attend- it may not be the best (WPI) but one that will offer him money to attend- if that's even possible with his grades (not that his grades are bad- they aren't).

Can anyone offer any ideas? thanks.

I have just started looking into the lower tuition schools. I think my son is going to have a huge reality check when he gets finanacial aid packages. Even though we have discussed our finances (and lack thereof), I think when he finally sees it in writing it will hit home. As a parent, all I am trying to do at this time is have him apply to some of these "other" schools- it may not be exactly what he wants- but we don't want him to have a debt of $40K on graduation. Education is important... but maybe not that important.

There are a lot of good schools out there and I'm sure he will end up going to the one he's meant to be at.

I will be sure to look into Pitt, Univ of Delaware and Univ of Md. The ones south of Virginia don't get snow and our son loves the cold- can't stand the heat; so if it doesn't get any snow at all he won't consider it.

It's funny the things that he will/will not accept. <<<<<

Frankly, I don't think his stats will earn him much (if any) merit money at the mentioned schools (BTW...many Eastern schools don't give much merit money anyway...there are a few exceptions, but they are probably 3rd tier or lower). He has a couple of problems - his GPA is too low. Merit money often requires a GPA of 3.5 or 3.75+, and the best merits usually require at least a ACT of 32.

I think your son is "mixing up" F/A packages with merit scholarship awards. Since your income is too high, the only F/A package he could get would include the pricey student loans (and he'd be LUCKY if he ONLY ended up owing $40k after 4 years of college if he goes that route.)

May I ask what state you reside. That would help with some "in-state" suggestions - since in-state schools sometimes have lower standards for in-state merit money.

BTW...does your DS understand the concept of TCA (total cost of attendance - tuition + room + board + books + fees + misc = a really big, big number - sometimes as much as $50K+ per year!!!)? This was something that my own DS1 had to learn...and accept...but accept he did (after hearing it from us over and over again...lol)

I have a couple of place in mind for your DS...let me look and see what I can find...

mom2collegekids · 09-25-2009, 06:04 PM

OK...continued from above...

University of Dayton (Catholic, if that's ok) offers B students scholarships.... Affordability

If they consider a 3.4 GPA as a B+ and with his 31 ACT, he would be awarded somewhere between $36K - 60k. BTW...is he retaking the ACT or taking the SAT...and can he bring up his GPA to a better B average? Also, is his GPA weighted or unweighted?

COA at UDayton...
2009-10 Academic Year
Tuition and fees $28,690
Residence halls $4,960 - $7,390
Meal plans $3,320 - $4,160
Books (not mentioned)

However, this probably still isn't enough. Your DS has to accept that although he is a "smart kid," his stats are not unusual enough for top schools to offer large merit awards and the family's EFC is not low enough for "free money" of grants, etc. And, the really top schools don't usually offer merit money because all of their students are NMFs or valedictorians or have perfect stats, or are students with unbelievable "hooks", etc. Frankly, a lot of F/A can often be student loans except at Ivies and "ivy-like" schools (but his stats probably aren't high enough for those schools)

BTW...I don't know why you've been told to look at UDelaware and UMaryland. If you're OOS for those schools, then I can't imagine that they would give your DS anything with his stats. As it is...not many state schools give much to OOS students...there are a few, but I don't think UD or UM does. Maybe I'm wrong.

AnagramPanda · 09-25-2009, 06:06 PM

Thanks for the advice. Just wanted to confirm that I am looking for a LAC, preferably with <4k students. So UA isn't a great fit.

Keilexandra · 09-25-2009, 06:28 PM

UD and UMCP both do give significant OOS merit money, but only to top students--think 3.9GPA, 2200SAT, lots of ECs.

mom2collegekids · 09-25-2009, 06:42 PM

>>>>Thanks for the advice. Just wanted to confirm that I am looking for a LAC, preferably with <4k students. So UA isn't a great fit. <<<

Ahhh...I understand...I'll do some more thinking...

Also, keep in mind that big schools that have honors programs are like a "small school" within a big school...small classes and personal attention.

Are you looking for a "full ride" (tuition, room, +), "full tuition", or something less?

mom2collegekids · 09-25-2009, 07:07 PM

>>>> UD and UMCP both do give significant OOS merit money, but only to top students--think 3.9GPA, 2200SAT, lots of ECs. <<<

OK..so they give some great scholarships to a few "top top" kids with stellar stats...so still not for Churckadoodle's DS... so I still don't know why those schools were suggested for his kid since both sites clearly indicate that the higher $$ scholarships will be awarded from a pool of students with stellar stats.....and I noticed that the UD website admitted that many with these high stats are still not awarded scholarship money.

I hate giving anyone false hope or sending anyone on a "wild goose chase" hoping for some scholarship money when it's very unlikely.... and when a person can't apply to an unlimited number of colleges.

mom2collegekids · 09-25-2009, 07:31 PM

For AnagramPanda....

I know that University of Rochester isn't an LAC...but

"With just over 4500 undergraduates, Rochester is one of the smallest and most collegiate in character among the nation's top research universities."

For someone with Anagram's stats, URochester is generous...but it's not a LAC....I know some kids that would have REALLY liked to have gone there.

Keilexandra · 09-25-2009, 11:36 PM

^^ I agree, UDel and UMD are admissions matches OOS for the student in question, and not good merit candidates.

AnagramPanda - Speaking as a die-hard LAC girl, I do recommend URochester. They have some unique humanities programs for being a "sciencey" school, and the campus is relatively compact. In general, I am not a fan of big school honors programs; I think they are best suited for the student who wants a big-school social experience (rah-rah football games, for instance) with more personal advising and some smaller classes. But you won't be able to avoid large lectures entirely--not by a long shot--and your social circle is unlikely to be just honors.

mom2collegekids · 09-26-2009, 11:33 AM

>>> ^^ I agree, UDel and UMD are admissions matches OOS for the student in question, and not good merit candidates. <<<<

Keil...can you clarify your quote? Are you saying that Chuckadoodle's DS is a "match" for acceptance, but wouldn't likely qualify for any meaningful merit $$ (if any) from UDel and UMD? If so, I completely agree.

I think Chuckadoodle needs to have a calm and loving "sit down" with his DS with facts in hand. Without facts, DS might continue to engage in "magical thinking" that somehow these colleges are going to "reach over" other students with higher stats & "hooks" and bestow riches upon him. I do think that it would be wise for Chuck to have some positive suggestions in hand so that DS doesn't think "all hope is lost" and that he won't be able go anywhere.

DS may have to "give up" the idea of a northern school and broaden his geography. My own DS1 "insisted" that he would only consider NE schools, but, after a "come to Jesus" meeting where the facts were laid out to him, he came to realize that NE schools were not an option. Luckily, we had done some college visits at affordable schools, so we did have some other options that he could be open to accepting.

Chuck needs to come up with a list of affordable schools, insist that some campus visits be done (bribe if necessary

), so that his DS can see that there are other schools on earth that he could be happy attending.

ChuckleDoodle · 09-26-2009, 12:37 PM

mom2collegekids.....thanks for the info. We live in VA and have on DS list VCU, JMU, ODU, and VT.

We have talked to DS about COA but I think until he actually "sees" offers, he won't accept it. My job at this point is to let him shoot for the stars- WPI (in his mind) but have alternates for him to go to when he finally realizes that he may not have enough fuel to reach them, he can go to VCU, JMU, etc. As far as UDayton, we're not Catholic and he'd prefer not to attend a Catholic school. Nothing against it, just not his cup o tea. I have looked into a couple of other OOS colleges where he would be a "high acheiver" with his current GPA, and might offer merit aid, so at this point I think we have a plan A, B and the fallback PLan C = attend CC for one year then transfer.

He doesn't want to retake the ACT or SAT and if he won't study for it; I'm not going to shell out the money because there won't be an improvement. As far as his grades go, he's taking AP Calc, AP Physics, AP Amer Lit and AP Human Geo along with German IV this year. He's working as an intern instead of taking a fluff class in 4th block --being challenged by his boss to learn Java and write a program for the company he works for.

So by CollConf standards, yes, he does have a lower GPA; but being a realist, I also know my son and I think the best we can hope for at this point is to see his GPA end up at 3.5/3.6 by the end of the year. Life's too short to spend it nagging and harping on the shoulda, coulda, woulda scenarios.

He will end up where he's meant to be.

This is something he has to do on his own. If I push him to do better and he gets into one of these better shools; what's to keep him focused at college? He's 17 and old enough to be responsible for himself.

My job is to offer advice, point out the fact that better grades will open more doors, but if he's not willing to invest the time then he will learn that his actions has consequences. (please don't flame me, I just think that sometimes we parents spend way too much time making our kids do things that they don't want to do. We can't do this all their life and where/when do you draw a line?)

thanks again for all the advice, I'll pass it on.

Chuck

AnagramPanda · 09-26-2009, 07:33 PM

Thanks for the recommendation of URochester. I've heard of it before, but never really investigated it because I thought it was too tech-oriented. I'll definitely look into it.
Also, as for mom2collegekids's question, I'm looking for half-tuition and up, mostly.

Keilexandra · 09-26-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom2collegekids

Keil...can you clarify your quote? Are you saying that Chuckadoodle's DS is a "match" for acceptance, but wouldn't likely qualify for any meaningful merit $$ (if any) from UDel and UMD? If so, I completely agree.

Yep, you interpreted me correctly.

pumpkin65 · 09-27-2009, 08:43 AM

Keep in mind the UDel's OOS tuition is quite a bit lower than UMCPs OOS tuition so starting price is lower. With a 32 ACT and what looks like a pretty rigorous courseload, he will likely get $$$ from U Del, and very possibly admission to honors. So, while merit aid of say 3k to 5k per year at UDel may not be an impressive number, it puts it a nice school in an affordable range, with a likely honors admission. At UMCP, merit aid is less likely than U Del, so total COA would still be high.

UMBC also fits some of Chuckadoodle's criteria...his son is a candidate for solid merit aid there and honors admission.

UDel fits quite a few of Chuckadoodle's son's soft criteria also - club lacrosse, location, and size. Though it has around 16k undergrad, it feels small because the campus is not vast and adjoins a town. Honors would make it feel even smaller.

jerzgrlmom · 09-27-2009, 05:21 PM

I graduated from UDel and it does not feel like a small college. It also doesn't get snow, not a northerner's sense of snow anyway. But it is a good school, esp engineering. I don't think he'd get merit $ from UDel with those stats.

Any chance he can get his school to award him the Rensselaer Medal Program. The recipient at our sister HS attends RPI. Might be worth asking guidance. It's worth $15,000/yr.

Rensselaer Medal Program - Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)

Keilexandra · 09-27-2009, 05:46 PM

I live 15 minutes away from UDel and have been within a 30-min radius for the past 9 years. Suffice to say, I know it far too well. It does not feel small--smallER than UMDCP, yes, but not small. Honors would be a reach with his stats, especially OOS. Keep in mind that UDel accepts basically any in-stater who appears able to succeed there, so OOS stats must be higher.

Snow, in DE, consists of a few inches, a few times a year, if you're LUCKY. I moved here from Canada and was quite astounded by the tiny amount of precipitation that resulted in a snow day. In NF, if we canceled school every time the roads were icy, we wouldn't be going to school all winter.