Forced volunteerism

[LazyBum201]

Hunt, I also got a "perfect attendance award" for having never missed a day of school from 5th grade till high school graduation (except for senior skip day, which for some reason they excused/overlooked) and had no idea there was such an award, but was happy to have gotten it.

Like many others here, I've never been comfortable with *schools* requiring community service, but do feel it within a parent's domain to model and encourage and perhaps even (dare I say it) push a child to volunteer if the child doesn't express a desire to help out on his or her own. We've been lucky in that our son has always wanted to help others. Perhaps my proudest moment in his life was when he was 5 and eating lunch in the middle of a Boston Chicken (not near the door to the place) and noticed an elderly man with a cane approaching and jumped up *mid-bite* and ran to get the door for him. When I commended him for his caring and thinking to do that, he said, "Why would you compliment me for that? Anyone would have done the same when seeing a man with a cane coming toward a door." I had to note that nobody else in the restaurant, sadly including myself, would think to cross a restaurant to open a door for someone else, especially when in the middle of their own meal. He was horrified by this. Ah, innocence.

My perhaps next most favorite memory of our son was when he was 7 and we went to eat at a Cheesecake Factory at Baltimore's Inner Harbor. Just as we sat down, my husband remarked that he didn't get a good view, as he was seated looking toward the restaurant rather than the harbor. Our son jumped up and said, "Here, take my seat!' Then, we noticed the table was quite dirty and I said we needed to ask the waitress to clean it off, and our son took his napkin and started cleaning it off, not wanting to give the waitress extra work. Next, I couldn't decide between two chicken dishes and asked for opinions on which to pick, and our son said, "Why don't you order one and I'll order the other and that way, you can have half of each and not have to decide at all?" Finally, he wanted a dessert, but they are quite expensive at this restaurant, and he insisted he pay for his own dessert, knowing full well we parents could spring for it.

At age 8, our son was nominated by two places (Multiple Sclerosis Foundation and the retirement home where he volunteered once a week from age 7 till he moved away to graduate school at age 14) for the Disney/McDonald's Millennium Dreamer's Award and he only sent in one of the two nominations, but still won the award (the contest was open to children ages 8 to 16 around the globe and over 100,000 had applications sent in and 2,000 won). We didn't really think he'd win as he was only 8 and we figured the older children would have far more volunteering experience, but he won and this was one of few things we allowed him to be on TV for (just a local channel in Florida, not local to us or national) as we felt he *could* be a role model for volunteering as anyone can volunteer and help others in some way. His being in college at age 9, giving presentations/talks for the White House/Smithsonian, MIT. ACM/Glenn Commission, etc. at age 8, and stuff that involved his natural intellect we time and again refused him to have stories written about as we don't feel he can be a model there as it's more from bum luck that he is able to do the stuff he has academically/intellectually rather than from devoting a lot of time and effort, so I've always felt he should be "looked up to" for his helping others/being a good person and not for his intellectual stuff that was a piece of cake for him (though I guess helping others come quite naturally to him, too, so many he shouldn't even be "looked up to" there, now that I think about it).

As for some ideas to start children early in being generous, my son and I starting when our son was 5 years of age have had a tradition of dropping off wrapped new books to kids in the hospital on Christmas Eve (we give the nurses a list of what each books is like and for what reading level and then number the tags on the books for them to give books matching the children's interests/reading level). Our son has told us that he plans to continue to do that all of his life (and when we are in another state on Christmas Eve to visit relatives, we have the relatives call their local children's hospital or general hospital's children's ward to set it up for us to be able to do this donation on Christmas Eve). I also had my son help me with creating candy packets and cards to give to each family on our street every Valentine's Day (and continue to do this even years after our son moved out of state). And we would deliver carnations to neighbors on National Good Neighbors Day. Our son was too young to volunteer to be an usher or chauffeur or such for our local annual arts festival, but he volunteered to help assemble welcome bags for the artists (and might be doing that again next week while visiting us).

There have also been times our son went out of his way to volunteer. Like when he was 7, an 11-year-old friend of his was participating in a program at the library where kids 10 and up read to toddlers. Our son felt this "age discrimination" and wrote to the library asking to be interviewed, noting that he felt he could read well enough to be a part of the program, and sure enough, he got the (volunteer) job. In that same letter, he suggested that the library not only have the "grandparents who read to children" program, but add a "children who read to seniors" program (both due to some seniors having trouble reading and due to his feeling some seniors would simply enjoy to be read to by kids even if they can read themselves with no problem). The library ignored that part of his letter. But then he went to a retirement home to give a handchime choir performance and thought, "Hey, maybe THESE seniors would like someone to visit and read to them" and sure enough, the retirement home volunteer coordinator was thrilled by our son's offer, despite their never having had a volunteer there quite so young prior. And in time, he also was playing the organ and piano and bowed psaltry and such for them rather than just reading to them. And one of his strongest fans for years was a woman at that retirement home. Our son was called by the daughter of a resident who had died (and it was scary for our son as she seemed to die before his eyes during a visit, but was still alive and died a few days later) and asked if he would be willing to do a eulogy for the woman. He was only 10, but did such a touching job for her and the biggest fan resident insisted for years that our son promise he would also do a eulogy for her when she died. Our son was 15 and in graduate school when the daughter contacted us and asked if he could do a eulogy, as her mother left express wishes for him to do so, but she also understood he was out of state for school and would understand if he couldn't make it. He came back and gave a eulogy for the woman. I thought his second eulogy there lacked, to be honest, in part due to lack of preparation (his graduate schooling has turned him into quite the 'fly by the seats of your pants" sort, sadly, and hopefully he'll turn this back around once out of school) and in part due to his being more emotional about this woman's death and not even speaking very smoothly, but he got lots of thanks and I was proud of our son just the same (something you won't usually hear me saying about his academic achievements) because he did *try* to honor her, and did care that she was gone and that her relatives and friends were grieving.

He continues to volunteer on his own accord, too much we feel at times, and to be acknowledged in ways he didn't even know could happen (like he won the annual cash award at his dorm for whoever gave the most to the dorm community the year prior in the first year he was eligible, and he didn't even know there was such an award until he got an email informing him of his winning it, and today he got a gift certificate for having volunteered to play the piano for his lab's graduation reception even though he did the same last year and never got a gift and so certainly wasn't expecting one this year, but just enjoys playing music for others). I actually far rather his getting "credit" for volunteering than things like the certificates his scores on the verbal and math sections of the SAT at age 8 and such as for those things, he never had to put in any real time (other than to actually take a test, as it's not like he studied for the exam). Mind you, if someone works hard (reads the material dutifully several days a week, rewrites papers, prepares well, etc.) for a grade on a test or in a course, I am all for someone being acknowledged for the successful outcome (or even just the hard work in trying), but there is no way to know if someone *really* put in effort just by a grade, which is why I am more for service awards (as at least hours had to be logged there, though I grant some might be goofing off on the job, which is sad) than academic awards overall.

[Northstarmom]

LazyBum,
Give your son a hug for me. He sounds like a wonderful guy.

[LazyBum201]

I'd actually love to give YOU a hug as from the posts I've read by you on numerous threads, you strike me as a wonderful mom and just a nice person in general!

And I'd love to give my son a hug for you OR me, but he's on a flight to Bristol, England right now and my arms don't reach quite that far, and even if they did, I hope he's sleeping (as otherwise, he's going to be a zombie when he presents his paper tomorrow) and wouldn't want to wake him. But thanks for the sweet thought. He'd gladly hug you back, too. I can see him someday being one of those people holding the "Free Hugs" sign on some street corner.

[zsg]

I live in Toronto, where community service is required to graduate from HS.

The effect? So many teenagers volunteer just to get hours and don't put their heart into it that it is nearly impossible to get a position other than door-to-door fundraising, and many organizations do not accept volunteers younger than 18 or accept volunteers only during the workweek.

I wish that the school board would accept that there are ways to give back to your community other than pestering people on the street to give to Greenpeace or Sick Kids.

[Hunt]

My church has an interesting program for middle-schoolers. It is a one-week daycamp in which the kids do service in the morning, and a fun activity in the afternoon. It's really more of a sampler than real intense service, as they typically go to a different charity each day--sorting food at a food pantry, helping at lunch at a nursing home, etc. My daughter participated, and I thought it was effective in getting her to see some of the different things that volunteers can do.

[Cali Trumpet]

So I imagine the OP feels like a model mother right now. She 'persuaded' her son to complete 75 hours of community service in a 3 week period. To me, as an 18 year old going off to college, this is in fact 'ridiculous.' According to you, I may be "close minded" and I am sure that you would not want me to be your son, because I would stand up for myself and say, "No." At age 13, I had no idea what i was doing in my life, but that is the age that I started to understand life a little bit more. The idea of summer, is a time for students to get a break from working five days a week. It holds many opportunities, but i see it unfair to make your children do more work that they would not do if their parents did not force it upon them.

I see it as this. You understand that your son is quickly turning into a teenager and he is leaving your grasp. Soon he will not pursue activities like this one per your request. I remember those years (my whole life basically) that my mom made me go to church every sunday. At around 13, I understood most of the stories being shoved down my throat time after time to be bogus, but for whatever reason, I was still stuck into going to church every Sunday, until just before high school. My point is that, I didn't really learn anything or receive any values by going to church another two years, because I did not want to be there and did not believe in what i was being told. I imagine if your son is not the one volunteering to go on this 3 week volunteer camp, he will not gain much from it either.

It is your son and your life, but boasting about being an overcontrolling mother to people you have never met before is a little distasteful. One day you will need to loosen those chains a bit and let your child decide what he would like to do.

[cptofthehouse]

I don't see a problem with forced volunteerism--to a point. For a 13 year old, it's fine, but when you are forcing kids way older, you are getting into murky ground. Just as you teach kids to do other things around the house and as a family member, you can have them doing volunteer group. You may get some complaining, as kids do complain about being told to do many things.

I remember when one my kids was a toddler. We were wrapping Christmas gifts to give to the church, and the little guy was enjoying the whole thing. Right up to the moment when he realized that HE wasn't getting a particular gift he liked. Tears were pouring out of his eyes and lips quivering as he placed it under the church tree. The priest said to all of us that this was true giving as he was giving something that he wanted. Yes, he was forced to give, and that was a foundation for future giving.

[HarrietMWelsch]

Cali Trumpet, the OP chose this forum for a couple of reasons. For one thing, it's the Parent Forum. The intended readership is parents - mature people who've already been 13-year-olds, 18-year-olds, 25-year-olds, 30-year-olds, and plenty beyond that. The OP posted her thoughts, looking for responses from people who have perspective and experience beyond that of children and young adults.

Chances are your understanding will expand and enlarge as you gain more experience, if you're as wise and open-minded as you already seem to be certain you are. As Mark Twain said, "When I was 17 I was appalled by the stupidity of my father. When I was 21 I was amazed to see what the old man had learned in 4 short years."

If you find anything in the Parent Forum distasteful, maybe that's because it's not designed for your tastes.

[SoCalGal09]

As my dad would say, "To make a short story long..." (and bear with me, I will make my point).

Last weekend our house was TP'd and shredded paper scraps were strewn about the yard. We have two teenagers, but I suspected the older one who was heading out the door for SAT IIs was the object of the adoration/retaliation. So the younger one (who's a good sport) and I started the cleanup. She found a scrap with a zip code so it looked like shredded mail. I looked a little closer and found this perfect strip with an address from just around the corner (side note: cross-cut shredder -- much more secure). Drove by, had no idea who lived there. But come to find two teenage boys who had scootered by our house the night before thought they were yelled at. We were actually all out at the time, and the teenage girl only yelled "Hi!".

Well anyway, punishment fitting the crime... I'm sure it took them a lot longer to pick up all the scraps than to throw them about. I said to the mom that we had worked quite a while before we found the address and that if she found it appropriate to add an additional punishment, it wouldn't be unwarranted. She said yes, she was going to make them do volunteer work over the summer. Yikes. Okay, she was already misguided on not knowing where her teens are in the wee hours. But I couldn't help saying that volunteer work is something to do because it is the right thing to do. Not a punishment.

DH and I do quite a bit of community service work so its always been in our kids lives. Yes, we often get the eye rolls and grumbles, but we also get them for visiting Grandma and cleaning their room. They're not going to automatically zero in on "the right thing to do" at this age. There's a reason they are still under our guidance. At the end of the day they have their favorite charities so we gravitate to those and they always come away happy to make a difference and not at all resentful of the push to step away from the X-Box or get up and hour or two early on a Saturday.

[annikasorrensen]

I see the OPs stance as exposing the teen child to an experience... it just happens to be through a volunteer-like opportunity. Two summers ago with my 13 year old, I knew if I didn't arrange his summer, he'd spend 15 hours a day on the computer. I also knew that it would be no fun for me to nag him every day to do something OTHER than computers and I knew that it would boil down to constant arguments over how many hours per day of computers is too much. What I did instead was sign him up for 2 different boy scout camps (a fairly normal summer for him), heavily "encourage" him to sign up for 1 more week of volunteering a cub scout camp, and then on top of that he spent one week at one set of grandparents and two weeks at another set of grandparents. (There was computers at the grandparents, but the change of pace and social aspects of the visits meant it was greatly reduced.) So far, so good - busy 6 out of the 12 weeks of vacation. Then, on the other 6 weeks, I made sure he had about 1 - 2 hours of outdoor chores to do each day (walk the dogs, deal with the yard, etc). My husband gave him 1 - 2 hours a day of computer challenges (programming). Whatever time was leftover, we pretty much let him be.

He survived. He also got a fair amount of computer gaming inbetween all the scheduled activities. I'd have it no other way. I see what the OP did with arranging 3 weeks of volunteer duty as a reasonable response to the tendency for *some* teens to be very undirected over the summers. I disagree with the teen poster who made it sound like these kinds of directed activites (volunteering, church on Sundays, etc) as a misguided effort with no long term payoff. The teen poster (and my teen son) do not have the ability to see how these things play out long term. Sometimes the lessons learned are not what is learned in the moment... I also as a teen was required to attend church every Sunday and thought it was pointless. Long term, as an adult, I realize that my parents were walking-the-walk in terms of religious values... even if I chose as an adult to not live that way, I knew deep deep deep in my bones that this is what my parents believed and that they were consistant and true to their beliefs. Had they allowed me to stop going to church as a surly teen... they would not have been parenting me from a consistant set of values. Merely knowing that my parents were consistant and true has been a valuable compass for me to compare all my actions against, even when I chose differently. This lesson is something that many teens, and dare I say, the teen poster, is unable to appreciate or truly understand in in the moment.

I applaud OPs decision. Parenting isn't a perfect art, and sometimes as parents we tilt too far one way or the other, but overall an aware parent makes courses corrections as needed. We need to trust our children are resiliant and resourceful and will weather any well-meaning decision that might have been too exhuberant one direction or the other. Is 3 weeks of volunteering too much? I doubt it. But, if at the end of this summer that is what the OP concludes, the child will have survived and grown (even if the child doesn't recognize it yet) and the OP can course correct in the future.

Annika

[Northstarmom]

"She said yes, she was going to make them do volunteer work over the summer. Yikes. Okay, she was already misguided on not knowing where her teens are in the wee hours. But I couldn't help saying that volunteer work is something to do because it is the right thing to do. Not a punishment."

What's really sad to me is that particularly low income people seem to think that community service is only something that people do to avoid jail.

An organization that I'm involved with was doing a neighborhood cleanup last year as a community service, and most of the residents just stared at us even though it was their neighborhood, not ours. Some even started making fun of us. It ended up that they assumed that we were doing community service to avoid jail. They really were shocked to find that we were doing it to simply try to be helpful.

[CTTC]

What's really sad to me is that particularly low income people seem to think that community service is only something that people do to avoid jail.

An organization that I'm involved with was doing a neighborhood cleanup last year as a community service, and most of the residents just stared at us even though it was their neighborhood, not ours. Some even started making fun of us. It ended up that they assumed that we were doing community service to avoid jail. They really were shocked to find that we were doing it to simply try to be helpful.

Then it seems like the "feed a man a fish and you feed him for a day" theme seems appropriate here. It seems hardly worth it to bother cleaning up a very low-income neighborhood. I would also think that some people would deliberately trash it once the volunteers would be done, with that kind of attitude.

[Chedva]

The idea of summer, is a time for students to get a break from working five days a week.

Actually, Cali Trumptet, it's not. The idea of "summer", back when we were an agrarian society, was that the children were necessary to help with the planting, sowing and harvest, much more grueling work than school. Children back then were an economic necessity; the farmer didn't need to hire and pay someone to do the work that the child could do. (And that's also why southern schools start earlier and end earlier - because the planting and harvesting seasons were earlier.)

The "summer vacation" as it is now known is a historical artifact. Parents don't get a summer as "a break from working five days a week." Students don't need it either. Summer should now be spent doing something worthwhile - be it camp (while fun, allows for the child's physical and emotional growth), job, summer study (academic, art or otherwise) or volunteer work.

[cptofthehouse]

Doing community service as a punishment is not necessarily a bad thing. Especially if it fits the crime. Kids putting dog doo in mail boxes can be the community pooper scoopers. I think litterers are appropriately given the job to clean up areas that are a mess because of people like them. Vandals just might learn how much trouble they caused by having to fix things that they broke. Working at a food bank or soup kitchen is not a bad punishment for kids who steal food or walk out of a restaraunt without paying (dishwashing is a classic consequence).

[annikasorrensen]

To add to Chedva's remarks, there is a growing trend for year-round schooling with shorter breaks. Studies have found that a traditional 10 - 12 week "summer vacation" means the children come back having lost up to 25% of their knowledge base, especially in math. Other countries like Japan have a 6 week summer (plus have summer homework). Also, countries like Japan have a higher total number of school days per year resulting in much higher number of hours per year spent on schoolwork. It is no mystery why Japan students score so highly in comparision to US students. The combination of culture (high expectations of the children from the adults) and school structure (year round schooling) has yielded predictable results in Japan. It is not out of the grasp of the US (where I am from) to do something similar. In the meantime, parents who want high academic achievement from their children should not solely rely on the school system, but supplement it. (And I advocate this is a decision to be made from parent to parent, not all will see this the same way.)

After about the age of 12 - 13, my personal philosophy is that children need to stop being treated like children by their parents. It doesn't mean I think children should be sent out into the workforce, but I do think it means that parents should take a look at summer break as an opportunity to prepare their children for the challenges of adult life. This might mean summer camp (friendship, survival skills, new experiences, dealing with other adult role models, etc), or helping around the house (being a member of the family that _contributes_ significantly vs. just a free-ride member), or volunteering (exposing them to different careers, or having them help people of different ages, abilities, socio-economic or ethnic or religious backgrounds), or any other numerous activities. Our son wants to be a computer programmer when he grows up... during the summer he gets weekly programming "assignments" from his father to challenge him beyond his normal hacking. The assignments steer him to skills in programming that deepen his knowledge in a way that can be applied to many programming challenges.

The keys to consider are promoting balance, engaging in forward thinking and planning on behalf of our children, and considering our teen as a "young adult" capable of stretching beyond childhood self-definitions. There's plenty of time for the teen to play, sleep in, goof off while also being directed over the summer break. The 3 or 4 summers before heading off to college or the real world of fulltime employment are about preparing our children for those challenges. NOT a summer of a "break" as the teen poster seemed to indicate.

Most adults do not get a summer break (and teachers do not, either - they often have to work parttime to supplement their income or end up taking classes for further credit and career advancement) - and I don't want my kids to think that the majority of their adult lives will revolve around the idea of an automatic 12 weeks off. I remember when my son was in 2nd grade and his teacher gave him ... gasp ... WEEKEND homework. His reaction was tears and frustration because he had erroneously taken to believe that weekends were off-limits to homework assignments from teachers. I see a bit of this attitude (shock, denial, frustration, even anger) in some teens when confronted with the idea that summers during high school are _not_ vacations, but a time that should be harnessed (with reasonable balance) for preparation to enter the adult world of responsibilities.

Annika