Parent reneges on financial commitment to Brown

[goaliedad]

Did I read that she was admitted ED??? If so, her choices may only be Brown or CC, unfortunately. She probably had to withdraw all of her other apps and given that she got an adequate FA offer, so other schools will at this point not want to play.

I'm getting in line behind owlice to smack this one if he ever heads east.

[ebeeeee]

I'm in Central CA and happy to head south...perfectly capable of smacking him for both of you...no charge

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

marite:

My thoughts were this -

- The OP implied that she 'really' wanted to attend Brown. I agree that if she takes a gap year (assuming it's too late for whatever else she'd consider for this year) she might very likely find some decent alternatives that would be a better financial deal, possibly including considering some UCs assuming she's in-state, but they wouldn't be 'Brown'. It really depends on how much she has her heart set on Brown.

- If she takes a gap year but still ends up at Brown with the same deal, she's no further ahead and likely behind due to the loss of a year's income.

I'm not casually stating to take on a lot of debt but depending on the job she might get and maybe the alternative living arrangements (living at home rent free, maybe using inexpensive transportation the first couple of years) it might be worth consideration. For example, if she could live at home and forego a $1200/month apartment cost that'd be $14400 per year cash she could use to pay down the loan. The problem with this latter part would be the unknown of what she's doing after Brown - grad school, work in a different city, etc. It'd also require that the mother agrees to the plan.

Hopefully at some point the father will see the error of his ways, his conscience will get the better of him, and he'll follow through on his commitment.

[marite]

UCSD-UCLA dad:

There are too many unknowns in the post-college scenario. A $40k debt (the project $7.500, probably rising to $10k by year four plus interest will severely constrict her choice of career (and this at a time when many college graduates are grateful to have jobs with Teach for America).

My take is that if Brown will not budge, forget about Brown. I'm sorry but this is not the first student who will have to forego a dream college for another one more affordable. Forget about Brown, apply to other schools (and not ED!) including HYPS and schools that give merit as well as UCs. If she wants to attend a CC then transfer, fine. But I dislike it when posters blithely assume that there are great paying jobs out there just waiting for Ivy League graduates to pick up just because they graduated from an Ivy (Barrons, where are you when we need your state uni boosterism?).
Inexpensive transportation? Ha! My S has to drive 20 miles each way to his job that does not pay as high as what we used to spend on his college tuition. He is driving our old car, so that's one less expense, but transportation is still an important item in his budget. $200 a barrel of oil is just around the corner. Talking of which, does the $7.5k shortfall cover travel from CA to the East Coast and back? books and incidentals? Or are we looking at an even bigger debt?
Something else to think about: If the student were to assume the debt and attend Brown, would she really enjoy herself if she had to spend most of her spare time working and had to watch every penny she spent and worried about what kind of majors she should pursue in order to land that supposedly lucrative career?

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

Marite - I agree with you regarding the unknowns post-grad. This is probably the biggest factor. Your point about the additional cost due to coast to coast transportation is a good one, especially with air travel going up. Assuming 2-3 trips per year it adds up.

I also agree that one doesn't need to go to an Ivy for good job prospects and that an Ivy degree is no guarantee. OTOH it doesn't hurt either.

I do think that 'value' needs to be placed on someone's 'wants'. Plenty of students attend colleges other than Brown and have great experiences and fine job prospects. But plenty of families and students, probably many of them on CC, seem to place enough value on their choice to enter a certain amount of debt for it. Unfortunately that debt might be too intangible up front only to come back and be all too tangible later when they have to pay it back but it's really a very individual decision as to the sacrifices they're willing to make to attend a particular college.

[marite]

Well, I'm carrying quite a bit of debt for my Ss' education. But I can pay it back (far better than either of them can!); and I entered into it knowing-- not guessing or hoping-- that I could pay it back. I also wanted to enable my sons to graduate free of debt.

It was not wrong for the young woman to apply ED to Brown, on the understanding that her dad would help her out. And the dad is a cad and a scoundrel for reneging on his commitment.
But had she not gotten in, she would have applied elsewhere, gotten admitted somewhere and been happy. That happens in 90% of the cases. No one should think that there is only one school that can fulfill one's dreams, that none else will do.

If she were to graduate with $20k of debt, I'd say, go for it. But I'm looking at a more probable $40k, a mother who already works two jobs and is stretched to her limit, and I'm reluctant to recommend that she go to Brown and incur that debt.

[justbreathe]

I should note that for freshman year Brown eliminates the idea of "work study" and replaces it with a grant, but for sophomore through senior year, the EFC will go up to include the work study requirement.

If the daughter hasn't been in contact with her father for a long time, then there might be a way to get him cut out. It's a difficult process, but I do know people here who managed to get their loser deadbeat fathers factored out of the financial aid agreement. However, these were usually fathers who had a track record of uh never paying child support either.

"I just don't see how a 'Dad' could do this to his daughter."
I know quite a few students at Brown whose wealthy fathers have screwed them over by creating a really high EFC while simultaneously refusing to pay a dime. That, along with other things, was enough to make me stop talking to mine.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

^^ In this case it's worse than refusing to pay - it's first promising to pay setting a level of expectation along with a series of events into action (appying to Brown and accepting the spot) and then backing out for reasons that don't appear to be due to financial necessity.

[marite]

Yes. Had he refused to pay when she first got the Brown offer, she would have been able to back out of ED and applied to other schools.

[justbreathe]

I know. My father did the same thing.

[justbreathe]

Ugh it won't let me edit.
Anyway, my dad also promised a certain amount of money, then didn't follow through after I had committed and everything so my mother is picking up his slack to the tune of an extra $15,000 a year.

Anyway, Brown does let one not count the noncustodial parent in extreme circumstances---abuse, neglect, drug addiction, or a long history of being a useless loser("failing to support" is the proper term I believe they use)--so, like I mentioned earlier, failing to pay child support.

And I looked it up in my own FA package, but sophomore year on students are expected to contribute about $3,000 themselves each year.

[marite]

$3,000 per year is doable through term-time and summertime work. I would expect no less. My concern is that the $7.5k shortfall is on top of the budgeted $3,000 or whatever.

I'm glad you are able to manage with help from your mother. It does not seem that the young woman Redondave is writing about could do the same if her mom already works two jobs. I truly hope that Brown can be persuaded to up the finaid.

[owlice]

marite, we don't know how much debt there might be. We don't know enough about the situation. As I've previously posted, there may be things this student can do to mitigate the amount of the debt she would have to take on.

She may be able to graduate a semester (perhaps even a year) early by using AP credits (Advanced Placement Information) and perhaps summer courses at a less expensive school (such as CC where she lives). She may be able to cut some of the cost of her R&B by being an RA. And so on.

We can get close to what the max might be, but we don't know how much she could shave off that max by a number of different methods.

There are options out there besides CC and a gap year, and I hope she explores them all before deciding not to go to Brown.

goaliedad, you might have a bit of a wait in that line, because I may have to smack the guy more than once. Or twice.

[marite]

One of the conditions was that each of her divorced parents would pay $7500 per year towards her tuition,room & board, et al. All other costs were included in a grant from Brown. The father had agreed to this when he completed the papers. Now he is refusing to pay his $7500. The mother cannot afford to pick up the other $7500 portion. She works two jobs and has two younger children and provides the best that she can.

This is what I am working from. I'm pretty sure that even students who are on full ride have to contribute to their education and this is factored in when calculating how much the family must contribute. I am reluctant to assume that the student can earn more than what Brown estimates. I know it can be done: my S is earning good money this summer. But this is not a prudent course of action, just as relying on a money-making post college career is not a prudent scenario.

And really, I cannot see what is so great about 3 years racing through Brown vs. a gap year and four years at a different but still excellent college with more adequate financial aid, or a year at a CC and transfer to a top university, including within the UC system. Am I the only one not bowled over by the glory of an Ivy?

[cmbmom]

I will get in line for a smack at the dad, also. What a rotten thing to do.

If this were my child, I would send her to Brown at least for this year. Things could change - maybe the dad would reconsider, maybe Brown would change their offer for next year. The worst case scenario would be that the student would have to transfer to a less expensive school for soph year.