Our Universities Become Affordable to International Students

northeastmom · 07-05-2008, 08:41 AM

Foreign students flock to the US - The Boston Globe

yoed54 · 07-05-2008, 10:10 AM

Just read this article. I had a hard time reading how gleeful the admissions departments were and how they were expanding recruiting efforts when so many of our own students cannot get into their first, second, third choice schools. The number of foreign students enrolled has increased by 35,017 over the past 7 years. At the same time, the number of US students of college age has also increased dramatically. While I understand and support the need for foreign students, it is really making it much harder for US students to get into the top colleges and the colleges of their choice. It also just pained me to read about the admissions office's glee - why so gleeful? It is clearly about the $$$ as the colleges mentioned are highly diverse already.

I also think whomever wrote the article was a bit clueless - any students coming to the Boston area will contribute to the economy, perhaps not at the level of a wealthy foreign student but even the kid from Minnesota adds something. The article seemed to suggest that foreign students are filling seats that we can't fill in another way. The author seemed oblivious to the competition today's students face for the top schools (please don't tell me there is a college for everyone - I know!).

northeastmom · 07-05-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

It also just pained me to read about the admissions office's glee - why so gleeful? It is clearly about the $$$ as the colleges mentioned are highly diverse already.

This was my exact reaction!

BCEagle91 · 07-05-2008, 12:22 PM

College is a business.

We're basically paying the price for buying so many imported goods and not producing (exporting) enough products in return.

Reminds me of: the alien who lives among you will rise above you higher and higher but you will sink lower and lower. He will lend to you but you will not lend to him. He will be the head but you will be the tail

JHS · 07-05-2008, 01:01 PM

Ooof, I couldn't disagree with you all more.

The most internationally oriented of our undergraduate institutions have just over 10% foreign students. I would love to see that increase. It is great not only for our kids -- who become more connected to the world -- but for our country, too. Higher education is something we do well. It attracts highly motivated immigrants who have made our economy more productive, and it exports American values to the world.

So, a few more native-born kids won't get into Harvard? Boo-hoo-hoo. Our system offers such a wealth of opportunities so deep into the system that I can't imagine any actual harm coming from this. Not to mention that, from a long-term perspective, we are overbuilt in higher education. The alterative to educating more foreigners would be to close more institutions.

marite · 07-05-2008, 01:23 PM

Some time ago, before the dollar began its precipitous slide downward, I read that US universities were actively courting foreign students as a precaution against the end of the baby boomlet.
Disclosure: H and I were once "international students."

katliamom · 07-05-2008, 01:42 PM

International students have been big business for American universities for years. Marite, there was a time when my own DH was one of those recruiting those students you read about. Frankly, everyone benefitted from it. The really BAD news would be, if this trend stopped.

yoed54 · 07-06-2008, 10:14 AM

"The most internationally oriented of our undergraduate institutions have just over 10% foreign students. I would love to see that increase. It is great not only for our kids -- who become more connected to the world -- but for our country, too. Higher education is something we do well. It attracts highly motivated immigrants who have made our economy more productive, and it exports American values to the world."

My point on this is not that we should stop having foreign students but that we are increasing enrollment of foreign students but not increasing enrollment of native born students in the presence of a huge population increase. I am not arguing the benefits of having foreign students.

I was also speaking to the role of $$$ - the schools are not trying to enroll more foreign students for the social benefits of diversity - they are trying to enroll more foreign students to gain full tuition. This is not a post about the benefits of having foreign students.

alwaysamom · 07-06-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

when so many of our own students cannot get into their first, second, third choice schools.

Are there really that many kids who are in that situation? Of all the kids I know, I can't think of many. While the total numbers of international students has increased, has the overall percentage? I thought I'd read somewhere recently that it's been in the 10% range for a long time now. I agree with JHS that I'd be happy to see that number increase. My two Ds who have graduated from American colleges have not had the diversity that D3 is experiencing at the Univ. of Toronto. It's a positive in so many ways for the student body to be increasingly diverse. As for the $$$, well, that's just an additional benefit, in my opinion.

cameliasinensis · 07-06-2008, 12:04 PM

I'm an "international student" on paper, but I've lived in the United States since 2001 and speak English with no discernible accent. I've always felt a bit guilty for being included in that 10% statistic when the only reason I'm considered "foreign" is that I'm here on a G-1 visa instead of a green card.

JHS · 07-06-2008, 12:47 PM

yoed54: There isn't a "huge population increase" of native-born students. There has been a very, very slow increase in the number of high school graduates, corresponding to increases in the population, increases in immigration in the 90s, and an increased rate of high school graduation. And, as of this year, the increase is essentially over, and we're looking at a very modest decline and basically a stable state over the next decade or so. With some major regional shifts, however -- declining population in New England and the northern Midwest, and increasing population in the Southwest.

There has also been increasing levels of attending college (although not necessarily of completing college). These may moderate, since the fastest-growing population group -- Hispanics -- has the lowest college attendance rate, in large part because policies about illegal immigrants freeze many of them out of college.

Anyway, the system has handled the U.S. population bulge just fine. The frenzy around Ivy-League level college admissions has little if anything to do with the population bulge itself. I'm not going to shed tears because a native-born U.S. citizen has to go to her third-choice college.

ilsa belter · 07-06-2008, 02:42 PM

^^(As long as it's not your kid.)

cptofthehouse · 07-06-2008, 02:53 PM

Many admission offices have been pained at the number of highly qualified international students that they have had to deny because the process is not need blind at most schools for internationals. If they cannot pay, they cannot be accepted at schools where need is a factor. Also for schools that are need blind but do not have the funds for international students, they are accepting students that they know are not going to be able to come. I guess this helps the situation out somewhat, but for some reason (namely the high cost of college) I don't think even the differential with the lowered exchange rates is going to make the difference for those international kids that have high need.

What this will help are schools that are despeerately seeking more pools of students who can afford full freight, a category that is diminishing as the cost for school go up. With full costs at some privates exceeding $50K, it is rapidly coming to point where schools other than the most desired ones are hurting to get full pay kids. They are having to "discount" admissions to have a full class. Some of the schools I saw on the list of colleges that still have room in June, are some good ones, that I think have just outpriced themselves.

I know NYC right now is enjoying a booming tourist trade as a result of the declining dollar. The good news is that it is a fresh source of income which may mean more $s for US kids when colleges get more full pay internationals.

yoed54 · 07-06-2008, 11:37 PM

JHS - wonder what part of the country you live in. It isn't necessarily the Ivy league schools that kids can't get into. In the Boston area, kids can't get into local schools that they want to go to, that have their desired major, or desired characteristics, because there are too many applicants from the Boston area and the colleges are seeking more diversity.

With the cost of airfare and transportation, I could give up a little broadening of experience (for us possibly - attending a less diverse school but one in another state or region) for a break in transportation costs. Also, as a consumer, which I truly am at $50k/year, I would like to make sure the $$$ is well spent not for name but for quality of program. I do not find all schools to be equal - sorry. I would not spend $50k on any house, just one of the houses I looked at that meets my needs and desired characteristics. I resent the constant reference here to people desiring Ivy League schools - that is hardly an issue at this point in time.

If you believe the system has handled the bulge well, you should interview some of the kids (and parents) who had to deal with this year's admissions frenzy. Having done it twice now, I can honestly say this was the year from hell.

JHS · 07-07-2008, 11:28 AM

No secret where I live -- it says where right under my name. It's in a state where people are counting on attracting students from other states and other countries in order to maintain the state's higher education system intact.

I didn't have a kid in the game this year, but I know lots of people who did, and I did go through it LAST year. Sure, lots of "frenzy". But I don't know anyone who was told that there was no more room at the inn.

As for the Boston area, the problem is clearly those foreigners from New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. I checked BU (10.3% international), Northeastern (6.5% international), and Emerson (4% international) -- and at each of the the number of students from the Mid-Atlantic region equals or exceeds the number from Massachusetts.