Women's Colleges Pro's and Con's

[ingerp]

My son and I looked long and hard at Wabash College this past year. It's a *very* impressive institution (although the CTCL-ers out there already know this). One professor told my son that most of the faculty had come from coed schools, but teaching boys is different than teaching girls, and it was nice being able to teach to a single sex. I gotta say I'd never really thought about that before. And of course I've heard from *lots* of kids/parents of kids who went/go to single sex schools that there are plenty of the opposite sex around on weekends. But I guess it can be kind of a good thing to focus on studies during the week.

The premiere private school in our town announced this spring that they're starting a pilot program of splitting 5th and 7th grade math and science by sex. I can certainly understand the benefits.

Of course, different kids excel in different environments.

[emeraldkity4]

They have a middle school that is for girls in our town, at one point there were two . Even before that, there was talk about having public school options for girls ( there is public African American Academy), but that never got off the ground , hence the private involvement.
Sounds like middle school age is an especially good time for concentrated efforts in that area.
Unfortunately my kids wouldn't consider it, but the parents and the girls who have , are quite pleased.

[ignatius]

D2 (rising hs senior) has been in girls' schools since 4th grade. She isn't considering an all-girls college because she is ready for a change. However, I overheard her tell someone that she has loved the girls' school experience and would definitely choose it again. She thinks that there is less drama on a daily basis in a single sex school, and I must admit that she and her friends roll along smoothly without fighting or tears - but maybe that's just her. I do notice that any competition is school-based rather than boy-based.

Speaking of boys: Harder to meet boys, I guess, - at least in hs - but not impossible. Daughter had a steady boyfriend for a good part of last year, and just recently avoided giving out her number to one young man that didn't quite catch her interest.

[pesto]

BarristerDad118:

I think the most useful comment you will find in this whole thread is the one made on the first page: that if your D has a lot of guy friends in HS, then she will probably be happier at a coed school, but if her closest circle of friends has been mainly female, then she might not have a problem with the lack of guys at an all-women's school, and may in fact discover that she would flourish in that environment.

My D just graduated from Smith, in the same class as Mini's D. I was the one in our family who originally had the most reservations about her applying to an all-women's school (because I had attended an all-female HS myself). But she had gone the co-ed route in HS, and didn't have the same need to expand her horizons that I had had.

I don't deal much in statistics or theory, but I can speak from personal experience: I have been blown away by my D's blossoming at Smith -- in leadership skills, in self-confidence, in comfort dealing with any "real-world" situation, in networking skills, and in the ever-widening circle of friends and acquaintances with whom she feels no diffidence about keeping in touch.

Is there catty HS-like behavior among women at Smith? She will be the first one to say yes, there is. But in college you don't have to pay any attention to it. She has amazing friends from Smith who all supported each other through college, and who now are doing meaningful things with their lives in engineering, teaching, public service, peace corps work abroad, etc.

Is there a significant lesbian population at Smith? Yes, there is, but who cares? Her relationships have been based on common interests, not on sexual persuasion.

Is there a a high "PC" quotient in the dialogue around campus? Yes, there is, but the same is true of many campuses around the country, and even at Smith there is a small but active Republican students' group. Hey, that's where Ainsley from "West Wing" went to college!

Go to a school like Smith and you get extraordinary alumnae support that lasts well beyond the undergrad years, you get traditions that bind students to their alma mater for the rest of their lives (Smith's "Ivy Day" parade of alums is proof of that), you get the best of all atmospheres in which to make life-long friendships (without all the angst about hetero-sexual relationships that can dominate life in a co-ed school), and you get professors who not only know your name but will help you to make the connections to your chosen path after college. Go to Smith in a field like Engineering, earn a decent GPA, and you are guaranteed admission to some of the best engineering graduate programs in the country, including Princeton. And the list goes on.

I was a little surprised you didn't include Smith in the list of women's colleges you are looking at -- any particular reason why? If your daughter herself is interested in exploring the all-women's schools, I'd recommend you check it out -- and, no matter where she ends up applying, best of luck!

[advantagious]

I actually have to chime in here and respectfully disagree with the advice that girls who had many male friends in high school will probably be happier at coed schools. That isn't true of me, and I would say that it is actually quite common to hear of other happy women's college students who had many/mostly male friends in high school. I really have quite a bit of trouble advising people of whether they might or might not enjoy a women's college, because I have met so many people of so many different personalities who are really happy at Wellesley and are fine with being at a women's college, to the point where I don't really see an overarching trend (well, more accurately, I *do* see overarching trends when it comes to fitting in at Wellesley in particular, but not when it comes to being happy at a women's college). For Wellesley in particular, it does seem that visiting tends to cement people's opinions quite well--they either love it or practically have an allergic reaction. But I think that many more prospective students should give women's colleges a chance, at least so far as to visit, because there are so, so many examples that I've seen here and at Wellesley of students who said they would never go to a women's college not only attending but thriving once there.

[ignatius]

For anyone interested "high school life" has a thread started re same sex hs schools with responses from students currently attending/just graduated.

[bugmom]

I, too, attended an all girls college, Douglass, just before Rutgers College went co-ed. I don't really understand what RU has done with Douglass these days, so I really cannot advocate for it anymore. But I thought an all women college was a great experience. I had been in a co-ed high school, had lots of guy friends, but was very insecure as a student, wouldn't speak in class, etc. I just bloomed in college. I no longer felt intimidated by guys in class, and the few Rutgers guys who ventured into our classes generally got blown away because the women were very serious students. I don't think I would have ended up where I am had I followed my brothers off to Penn State. Like Scripps and some of the others with close proximity to coed or guys schools, we were never lacking for guys in the library, the student center and at social events. But it was really the classroom experience that made it great for me.

[foolishpleasure]

Douglass, Radcliffe, Pembroke, Barnard and Scripps are/were in a class unto themselves because their brother schools were in walking distance, not just in close proximity. Thus, as bugmom posts above, there were/are always guys on campus and the schools even sponsored joint programs (Scripps, for example fields a coed track team with CMC). This is far less the case at Smith, MoHo and other women's colleges where students travel by bus (up to 25min) to other campuses.

[Hanna]

"There are few opportunities to meet guys in more natural, everyday situations."

That can be true, and it may be troubling to some students, as it was for me. I thought that being at a women's college, in some ways, _increased_ the importance and status of men. Bryn Mawr and Haverford together are over 75% female, so while the community is nominally coed, men are kind of rare and special. It was SUCH a big deal when an all-male a cappella group (for example) came to campus.

Anna Quindlen, a Barnard graduate, compared a women's college to learning to swim while holding on to the edge of the pool: "I didn't learn the arm movements until after I graduated, but by then I was one heck of a kicker." That's a pretty good distillation of my experience, too, except that I was sick of holding on to the edge and wanted to try jumping off the high dive. Kids just need to figure out before they enroll whether they will find the women's college cozy or stifling.

[Swellesley]

I feel so much more confident, empowered and capable at Wellesley than I did in my co-ed high school. There's no male domination when it comes to leadership positions or certain majors like science and math. Best of all, when I graduate I can use Wellesley's W network to meet with alumnae who have succeeded in stereotypically male roles (i.e. business, law, politics, journalism). I don't think I'd get this much personalized attention or encouragement at a co-ed school. I guess you feel relevant and special, as if you can really change society.

[BarristerDad118]

^^pesto # 64. I would agree that Smith is a premiere women's school, but the lesbian pervasiveness caused a good friend's D, to take off a year. She returned and finished, but the experience really discombobulated the young lady, who is not only not a lesbian, she is one of the most tolerant and interesting young people I have ever known. Her parents are wonderful folks as well. I have known the family for nearly 20 years and their "PC" obsession cost their family a lot of grief.

The impression with Smith is "get over the sexual persuasion thing." That is usually accurate AND appropriate. By contrast, if Smith TOLERATES SEXUAL HARASSMENT BY WOMEN AGAINST OTHER WOMEN, that is really not good at all, and I would not want my d to be part of the nonsense.

I have also heard that Smith tends to breed "man haters". That evidence is certainly anecdotal, but concerns me. I would invite others to share their views? It just seems the other women's schools seem to be more stable.

[dke]

In my family all of the wpmen for the past three generations have gone to womens' colleges. It is a unique environment and certainly not for everyone, but as far as cattiness nothing could be farther from the truth. We were sisters and are friends for life now. Actually, when we "road tripped" we found more cattiness among the coeds and were kind of taken aback by it. We were also independent minded as far as not having to have a date EVERY Saturday night...We could survive without men around every second! Having said that, I'm encouraging my daughter to go the coed route when college comes around. I like the way she has guy pals at her coed private school, and think that she'd enjoy that at the college level as well. The whole road tripping thing can be an artificial way of meeting men and I have to say, we weren't always treated with respect.

[stacy]

I'm a Smith grad and--to add to BarristerDad's stock of anecdotes--I certainly don't hate men! I attend a grad program that's more than half male, have plenty of male friends, and get along well with male co-workers and family members. If anything, attending Smith made me feel more confident in myself, which made it easier to work, attend school with, and befriend all sorts of people after I graduated. I have a close group of friends from Smith and I really cherish our connection. I wouldn't classify any of them as "man-haters," regardless of whether they are gay or straight, married, engaged, divorced, or single. The same goes for other womens' college graduates I know: I have friends who attended Wellesley, Bryn Mawr, Douglass, and Agnes Scott and they are all phenomenal.

I'm sorry that your friends' daughter had a difficult experience at Smith. I can understand why that might sour you on the school. I obviously don't know the facts of her specific situation, but it was never my experience that Smith as an institution tolerated any sort of harassment, sexual or otherwise. In fact, I was part of a committee while I was a student there that revised the bias incidents review policy--it was a topic that was taken extremely seriously, and the college's residence life and academic administrators, as well as the general counsel, were fully on board with the idea of investigating and stopping these incidents. I understand why that may be little consolation to you, but I hope it helps other people who are considering Smith to realize that it is hardly a place where harassment is tolerated or rampant

[MidwestMom2Kids_]

Kids and recent grads from my daughter's coed H.S. think Barnard is where girls who don't get into Columbia go; they don't think that going to Barnard marks you as being a smart person.

(Of course there are many brilliant young women at Barnard! I am just noting the impressions of the young people from our school, which generally sends kids to every Ivy every year.)

[zsg]

Math for the straight woman:

A tour guide at Wellesley told me that 15% of Wellesley students identify as something other than straight. This means that 15% of other students might make unwanted advances towards you.

A co-ed college might be about 48% straight male students. Let's assume you find half these men attractive; therefore, 24% of other students might make unwanted advances towards you.

Obviously, this is an oversimplification, but you get the idea.