Is your child paying a social cost for success?

[NorthMinnesota]

There will always be petty jealousies whether faced with athletic or academic success. She needs to hold her head high, be her cheerful self and know that there are some things she can't control. You can offer advice and tools for change but ultimately only she knows when it's time to move on. I wish her much success and hope she finds her niche and lots of happiness.

[mom2three]

Bleah... Glad our high school years are almost over!
Glad we had boys.


Agree with the statements about college being SO much better, socially, for a lot of kids who aren't Queen Bee in high school

Good luck to everyone who has kids going through this yuck.

[franglish]

There is a big transition that often happens in the summer between 10th and 11th grade. All of a sudden, school really matters, and a lot of kids who otherwise didn't seem to care, suddenly do. Perhaps that will happen to your daughter's group of "friends," and it really depends on the school personnel to help that happen. If that is the case, then she will already be on top of the situation, and her friends will try to catch up with her. My D was the same way. Definitely the smartest one in the group, still is, and they all needed her help junior year to get them to the place where they could achieve (at their own levels). So she was sought after, as a resource, and that has resulted, two years later, in her being much more popular than she was before junior year. It is true, though, that after the trials and tribulations of high school, college is SO different socially. D is at Ivy school, and feels like she is home, with her college friends. Not so much, any more, with her high school friends. Betwixt and between a bit, this summer.

[JHS]

I am so glad I never had to face this problem with my kids. At the schools they attended, there was no expectation that the "smart kids" would be antisocial. Some of them were, but not enough to form the norm.

My daughter shifted back and forth among various sets of friends -- private school friends, high-academic-achievement public school friends, and bohemian fringe artist friends. She probably went out 4 nights a week, at least for a couple of hours. Her social life was great.

My son was much less social, and mainly hung out at school with the competitive-kid group. He probably didn't "go out"-go out as often as once a week. But he definitely had a good set of people to talk to at school, and there were a few that he often hung with for a while after school, too, or went to the movies with, plus a small set of non-school friends with whom to play Magic, The Gathering and watch anime DVDs.

I will say -- and this may be part of the problem in GFG-land -- that there were two huge periods of social instability in my daughter's precollegiate world: The first half of 7th grade, and the transition from 10th grade to 11th grade. Both times, the girls' social deck was basically cut and reshuffled. My daughter had a very tight set of 6-8 friends from 7th-10th grades, and the group just completely blew up at the end of 10th grade over shifting preferences about boys, substances, and school. There was maybe about a 10% time-weighted overlap between the girls she spent time with in the spring of 10th grade and the girls she spent time with in the spring of 11th grade. And that was true for the other girls, too. ALL of the social decks seemed to have been cut and re-shuffled at the same time.

[NorthMinnesota]

franglish...same with D1! She is working at an excellent internship and has no desire to go out with old HS friends. She has definitely moved on.

[StickerShock]

Yes, substance use was a BIG reason for the social deck to shuffle as high school started. Plus D was leaving the public school system, maintaining some old friendships, and making new connections.

Facebook has been a blessing for her, though GFG's D hasn't had the same positive experience. D keeps in touch with friends she has made in overseas music competitions & all kinds of programs in which she has participated. While it's a long distance connection, sometimes the common interests make up for that.

GFG, what about connections she has made at sports camps? Has she exchanged any contact info with competitors at her state /regional /national meets?

[MiamiDAP]

D. is doing all she needs for college (shadowing doctors, volunteering) but spend all her free time with her HS friends of all ages. She will be a college sophmore in a fall. There is no difference between this summer and her HS summers.

[worknprogress]

I work with teens and young adults and even I was taken aback by how mean and manipulative a "Queen Bee" was with my D. At first I thought my D was being overly sensitive, but I eventually discovered that what she was feeling was true.

I am happy to report that her freshman year was terrific. I think her experiences in high school helped avoid girls who had the potential to be petty and she has found a lot of really wonderful friends. While she was home this summer, she checked in with one or two friends from her high school, both were actually a grade ahead of her, but otherwise, she has been content to just keep in contact with her college friends.

It's funny. D has been really happy since she returned home from college, but if we meet someone from HS in the mall, she becomes far more inhibited and reserved. I think she likes the person she is now, and wants no reminders of the hurts and slights she received in HS.

[gadad]

worknp - Now that you mention it, I don't think I ever went back to my HS after I started college.

[NorthEastMom2]

OP, You could be describing my d's HS. The top tier is pretty heavily weighted with Asian/Indian kids - and they are a very tight group. Many of them are not allowed to hang out with American kids. They have their own parties, etc. American kids who do really well are called Faux Asian. It makes it very difficult socially.

D1 has done okay with all this, d2 is having a tough time. Hopefully college will be better. That is one reason we wanted her to go to a good college, so that she wouldn't be an outlier, but more of the norm.

And I agree with you - there seems to be 2 extremes - the very active, and the not all all. Hopfully college will be better.

[TheGFG]

Thanks, NorthEastMom2. We're in NJ too, so it makes sense that you'd be seeing a similar phenomenon. S, who is 4 years older, experienced the same dynamic but as a boy and one who is happy with just a few close friends, it didn't bother him as much as it does D. Funny you mention the Faux Asian label. S was dubbed an "honorary Asian". It was made clear to him that they consider most Americans to be lazy and stupid, but since he was neither they accepted him. But I guess that acceptance was conditional because when he did not achieve a high enough score (as in 780-800) in the math section of the SAT, though he did get 800 on the verbal, he was shunned for a while. Hard to believe, but true. And yes, many but not all Asian parents think American kids will be a bad academic influence on their children and therefore don't allow them to socialize with Americans. The prejudice is more on their end than on ours, since Americans view Asians very positively. Dating is also difficult for that reason. S was the only non-Asian in most of his classes, and so his GF ended up being an Asian. She hid it from her parents for a while and I doubt they're very happy about it still. In another thread I talked about the day the GF's mother interrogated me about my S's academic credentials because she was worried he would cause her D to lose focus on her studies.

[frazzled1]

Of my 3 ds, the highest-achieving did make social sacrifices in hs – but I’d say that she wanted it that way. She had a small group of good friends in her main EC and another at school, but she also had 2 part-time jobs and a perfectionist mindset that didn’t allow for many nights out. She didn’t want to be a social butterfly – her friends were kids like her (no substances), who’d rather sacrifice parties for academic success than the other way around.

That changed freshman year in college. When her first-year GPA wasn’t where she wanted it to be, she moderated the socializing and has now, as a senior, settled into a rewarding social life and still achieves the academic marks she sets for herself. So for some kids it just takes time to figure it all out.

I completely agree that alcohol and pot create a Great Divide, particularly in the first three years of high school. From what I’ve observed, kids who drink/smoke pot cut themselves off from kids who don’t (interesting that it’s not the other way around), and do so until senior year. At that time, the groups seem to mix more easily and accept each other more – or so it seems to this old lady.

[mammall]

The right friends will find her. Be patient.

And remember that the most important human relationship in her life right now is with you and the rest of her family. If that one is good then that's all that really matters. There's a reason some of those popular outgoing kids are always going out - they're out pursuing what they don't have at home: acceptance, support, love.

[StickerShock]

Mamall, I think you are confusing popularity with being a "mean girl." Some of the most popular teens around here have warm & wonderful homes that are open to their friends. These kids are raised to be confident and independent as well, and are very comfortable in new situations as they venture away from their parents. Going out without one's family-- a lot -- is normal & in fact necessary for teens to establish their own identities.

I certainly don't think you have to be popular or outgoing to achieve happiness. Some hermits are extremely happy. But my 30 year class reunion disproves your theory.

[riverrunner]

Hi GFG!
We've had similar issues with our D1- now off to college this fall.

She had friends on the team, but most were not that interested in studying. The girls she was closest to were usually upper-classmen who graduated away from her.

She finally found her people during her junior year (don't give up hope!) There were three other girls, with varied EC interests, and who were taking almost the same AP's. They formed a study group and met probably 3 nights a week for study and socializing. This was a godsend. They met at each other's houses, coffee shops, etc. For two years now, they've supported each other through their classes, college applications, first boyfriends, etc. The group grew to include other kids (usually boys!) from time to time.

All four girls were very good but not brilliant students. I would say what brought them together was ambition to do well academically their junior year, and to have fun at the same time. If your daughter will take a little advice, I would recommend that she keep her eyes open during the first couple of weeks of school for some other kids who are willing and interested in meeting to study. The kids who are over-the-top brilliant may not be interested in such a thing, but the next teir down sometimes figures out the social and educational benefits of banding together!

All four girls did well when it came time for admissions envelopes: 2 Ivies, 2 top-notch LAC's that you've heard of.

Best wishes. I know it's heartbreaking when you see your talented, sweet daughter all alone. There is someone nearby hoping to run in to someone just like her....