Is your child paying a social cost for success?

[Momneedsadvice]

<<Facebook can make you feel lonelier because you can see what everyone did w/o you>>

So true. Sometimes I think the main point of social events is for the girls to take dozens of pictures of themselves with their friends and post them on Facebook so everyone can see how popular they are and how much fun they are having. It's especially true with semi-formal dances and Sweet 16's, but also for general sleepovers, beach days/pool parties, etc.

[GroovyGeek]

MidwestMom: it's a pretty good school with good graduation rates, but I think the "American" kids have begun to just give up and cede the academic arena to the "Asian" kids, deciding they're just smarter.

What sort of a comment is that? Nerd = "Asian"??? Asian kids are not smarter, they just work harder. The problem with "American" kids is not that they are stupid, but rather that they have stupid parents who allow them to be lazy.

The harsh comments will probably offend a lot of people, but seeming so many people trying to make excuses for their kids rather than facing the music ****es me off. No I am not Asian, in case you are wondering.

[TheGFG]

GroovyGeek, I'm not describing my point of view, but rather the point of view of the American teens at D's high school. Personally, I have not allowed my children to slack off and be lazy. On this thread I am expressing that a negative consquence of their academic diligence is social exclusion. Asians have a cultural background which supports lots of extra studying, tutoring, classes on Saturdays, etc. That is the norm, it's what mostly all Asian parents expect, and so Asian kids can be smart, work hard and still fit in well with their peers. American kids have grown up with the concept that they are also to be athletic, social, and have a balanced childhood which includes plenty of time for play. An American kid can never be cool if he studies too much. That's not an excuse, and I'm not a fan of that viewpoint, but nevertheless it IS a valid cultural explanation. The label "nerd" speaks to that cultural prejudice; it's not a word I invented, for Pete's sake, and I didn't even use it in the sentences you quoted!

[mammall]

I really think the main thing to remember as a parent when kids go through rough patches with their high school social lives is that it just isn't that important. It can certainly be painful, but it does not presage anything bad in terms of the social life in the future at college. I think empathy is called for when your child goes through that but also keeping a sense of perspective. There are lots of "mean girls" out there. And lots of envy of kids who excel. Ironically, the very high achieving kids are often so modest that they can't believe the problem is that they are the object of envy.

Again, the real relationship that matters during these years is the one between the student and her family, followed by the student and her teachers. Then the social life among peers. It's just really, really not that important.

My daughter found that when she got too busy to care about it, she became much more in demand socially. Actually, one of her challenges during the second half of high school was handling the demands of her BF and friends. They can take a lot of time and energy! It all worked out in the end. But there's a flip side to everything.

She has told me that she is looking forward to attending college this fall where she knows virtually no one.

[Marian]

An American kid can never be cool if he studies too much.

This is not necessarily true in academic magnet schools, which is one of the things that justifies their existence.

My daughter was in a magnet program, and she often had to say no to social activities in order to keep up with her schoolwork. But in the magnet environment (and, I guess I have to say, in her particular social circle, which was about half Asian), this didn't make her a pariah. At a regular high school, it might have.

[riverrunner]

Therapy: have someone who has recently gone to their high school reunion share some insights.

My sister-in-law and I inadvertantly had a long and hysterical conversation about recent reunions in front of my daughters. They were very intrigued by the way things turned out for various old classmates. While I try to steer away from cliches and generalities, it was pretty clear that the kids who were geeks, nerds, late bloomers, and so on, had fared pretty well 30 years later. This seemed to bring some comfort to my girls.

[NorthEastMom2]

GroovyGeek,

It may be a NJ issue only, but I totally get what GFG is saying. Locally, the "American" parents seem to be anti-achievement, at least in the academic area. My son is attending CTY, and my "American" friends think that I am pushing him relentlessly. They feel sorry for him - even though he brought me the brochure, initiated the conversation, etc. My S even tells his friends that he's going to Nerd Camp. The "Asian" kids totally get it, and - to be fair - some of the "American" kids are okay with it. He is an "honorary Asian" - and that is their phrase, not mine.

At the HS, some of the teachers are very clear in their expectations that the "Asian" students will do better, because they are smarter. Yes, we really have teachers who will verbalize this sentiment in front of a class. (Wish my d had a tape recorder for all the times she has heard this !!)

Why it is this way is a whole different thread. But there are social consequences, and some "American" kids handle the situation better than others, and it may just depend on their peer group that year, or on individual personalities. But as a parent, it is really tough to feel like you are swimming against the stream when you are encouraging academic success and hard work.

[Marian]

My daughter was also an honorary Asian, NorthEastMom2. I think the term the kids used was lemon cookie (white on the outside, yellow on the inside -- this is their usage, not mine).

But I don't remember anyone ever referring to kids who weren't "Asian" as "American." They might have been called white or black or Hispanic, but not "American." After all, the Asian kids were Americans, too.

Maybe this is a regional difference. In Maryland, a lot of the Asian-American kids were born in the United States.

[oldfort]

Through out high school, all of my daughter's friends assumed things just came easily to her. She was admitted to various ballet programs, and always maintained As in her classes. But they didn't see all the hardwork she put into those things. At the end of her junior year, she was selected by the faculty to the two most prestigious organizations at her school. I think that was the last straw for her friends.

Her friends, lead by a ring leader, decided to exclude my daughter from all of their summer activities before the senior year. No one responded to her Facebook messages the whole summer. She also saw all the parties she was missing on the Facebook. It was very painful to watch(she checked her Facebook every few hours). I was really wondering how she was going to make it through the senior year. My stomach was in knots the first day of school. Til this day I don't know how she did it, but she just marched up to all of her so called friends and hugged them, pretended she didn't notice no one spoke to her the whole summer. I think some of them felt ashamed and some of them realized how much they've missed her. In a week she was back in with all of them again. The ring leader just pretended she had nothing to do with it.

I have asked her how she felt about her friends after the episode. She said, "I did what I had to do in order to end my high school career well, but I know what kind of friends they are." Two years later, she still has never spoken to her friends about that summer.

Yes, our daughter's "so called success" has caused some social problems for her. My kids are half Chinese. Following our tradition, a lot is expect of her. But I see just as many white, black kids working just as hard at her school now. As a matter of fact, Asians do not have the highest GPAs and do not go to the highest ranking schools.

[MiamiDAP]

No Social Problems for my D., no "Queen Bee" at our HS school either. It looks like it depends on school. A lot of friends at college (some visited over summer), but D is still much closer to her HS friends (whole tons of them).

[ignatius]

To quote MiamiDAP: "No social problems for my d - no "Queen Bee" at the hs either. It looks like it depends on the school."

Same situation. D attends an all-girls school. Classes are demanding and the girls all seem to work hard and be involved in activities.

My daughter will attend a school function (play, movie night, ...) without checking to see if her closest friends will be there on not, because if they aren't then someone else will be. She seems to feel quite comfortable socially.

[ignatius]

Wanted to add that D is a homebody over all and I think she would be that way no matter the demands of her classes.

Personality plays into whether or not social expectations are met.

[Youdon'tsay]

Agree, ignatius, that it really depends on the kid. As I wrote earlier, my son doesn't crave the level of social interaction I do. I was shocked -- shocked! -- that he had me drive him to the Homecoming dance last year all alone. And I don't just mean without a date, but walking in with no friends in tow? I could never have down that in HS. Made me kind of proud. He had a great time. He goes to a school where there just aren't a lot of social expectations, like shelling out bucks for limos for a dance, etc.

[coureur]

Both of my Ds have been fortunate to have one best friend plus a small extended group of like-minded friends to hang around with. Both girls were/are high achievers and band geeks, and their friends came mostly from the band too.

D2 and her best friend are both rising seniors and are tied for the #1 class rank heading into their senior year. They decided way back in the 9th grade, when they both got straight As the first semester, that they would not compete and try to beat each other for val or other honors. Instead they planned to both keep their records perfect, graduate as co-vals and best friends, and then go off to and be roommates together at Stanford. Three years later they are still on track to actually do this. Although I pointed out to D that admission to Stanford was by no means a sure thing even for vals, and that should they both get in Stanford would probably assign them random roommates rather than allow them to choose each other.

[gadad]

Oldfort - My Ds also heard in HS that "things come so easily to them" from people who never saw how hard they worked at those things. Perhaps the fact that they weren't "hanging out" was seen as rejection from the kids who liked to just hang. But going to college with classmates like themselves has made all the difference.