I'm Graduating From A College I Can’t Afford - NYU - Page 11

scualum · 11-04-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

^^^^

Well, I don't recommend anyone in undergrad work 35 hours a week today. I think that more homework is required today than when I was in school. Plus, I can't believe how many "non-science" classes now have a "lab requirement" which means that a typical 3 credit class may no longer be 3 hours a week - it could be 5 hours per week. My DS2 has a 2 credit hour class that requires 4 hours a week.

As demanding as colleges are now, and considering how much more difficult it is to get a "decent" schedule, I'm not even sure a student could be certain to have enough blocks of time to work anywhere close to 35 hours per week without seriously jeopardizing his grades.

And...for the above figures...a man might be able to get away with such a minimalist life, but not many college girls are going to not buy clothes, shoes, or hair cuts for 4 years. What about gifts? And what about "some" entertainment. Granted the poster had "live in" entertainment, but a lot of kids don't.

And..I think only subtracting $2k for tax deductions is a bit off. Fed, state, FICA, SDI, etc, will be higher than that. There might even be some healthcare deductions, too.

Oh I totally agree with you on all of the above.

35 hours a week was nuts even in those days. The saving grace was because I was a cook, Dinner shift ran from 3 to about 10 - so I could take morning classes and then go to work.

Entertainment was where you could find it - I went to a lot of student films, plays and the like. Minimalist is a good description for the lifestyle - and imagine if I didn't have a girlfriend already

ParentOfIvyHope · 11-04-2009, 05:52 PM

Also beware that these cost are taken from the institutes which actually give the average cost and individual cost might be different.
DD cost for the first semester without board was $23050 for 4 months. Include the food for the semester with a minimum $2000 and $2000 for books and other expenses, the cost is going to be upward of $27000 for the semester making it $54000 for the year without summer and MIT is not on the above list.

tokenadult · 11-04-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

I'm one who worked his way through college, taking on no debt.

I'm another one. That was quite a while ago, and the economy has changed. Because I knew I would have to do that going in, I probably over-regarded list price of the colleges I looked at. Today, I advise my children to apply widely, see where they get admitted, and compare offers of need-based financial aid and "merit" scholarships. They will surely all have to work during college to get through college, but I hope they have more choices than I had at the same age.

poetgrl · 11-04-2009, 07:44 PM

I put myself through school, but that was back when it was still possible. It never even occured to me to take out a loan. My parent's could have paid, but that never occured to them, either. But I don't really think it's possible now since the cost of schools is so inflated.

mom2collegekids · 11-04-2009, 08:26 PM

^^^

Exactly. that's why it can be a bit annoying when some parents won't even consider helping their kids pay for college when they say, "I paid for myself; my kid can, too."

The costs just aren't the same anymore.

poetgrl · 11-04-2009, 08:41 PM

No, I know Mom2, but there's nothing to be done about it. I feel awful when I hear about that, as well.

TwistedxKiss · 11-04-2009, 08:49 PM

My favorite is, "I didn't go to college, why do you think you need to?" That's even better!

Bundle · 11-05-2009, 03:01 AM

The OP article about her debt load is scary! Plus, NYU was one of the schools my D had dreams about attending. While she understands that NYU doesn't offer good aid, I think I should show her that article to reinforce that point. It's easy to not worry about how much money one borrows until that person has to start paying it back at over $700 per month.

mom2collegekids · 11-05-2009, 08:33 AM

^^^

Bundle, plus NYU has super expensive housing - much higher than other colleges.

dbwes · 11-05-2009, 09:57 AM

Bundle -- definitely print it out and show it to her. It may make the point much better than ol' mom ever could.

berryberry61 · 11-05-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

1) Someone else decides your "need"

2) Colleges decide to "generously give" you a package that includes a bunch of student loans and often a big ole gap. (this is one of the most misunderstood part for many high school kids and their parents)

3) if you apply to a so-called "generous" Profile school they want your info, your new spouse's info, your ex's info, and your ex's new spouse's info.

Here is the fallacy with Financial Aid. Someone has to pay for it.

Now for the few schools with huge endowments (HYP) - their past donors are doing so through gifts to their endowments which help them fund big FA awards

For the majority of colleges - they have no where near the endowment needed to fund FA - so they either

1. stick it to those who can pay - charging them more than the true cost of admission, so they can discount tuition for those who can't. An absurd system as any around.

2. provide FA in the form or loans. While hard on the student, this is clearly more of a fair and reasonable approach than 1 above

There is no magic source of FA funds - either people borrow it, cost shift or have very generous donors

katliamom · 11-05-2009, 01:42 PM

Bundle, I know two kids who left NYU for financial reasons. Both got some aid from NYU, and lived on the cheap (as much as possible in Manhattan) but in the end could not justify the massive amount of debt they were incurring. Both kids now say they regret having gone to NYU in the first place, because they found the transfer process both painful and disruptive.

TJEDLICKA · 11-13-2009, 12:18 PM

I am completely blown away by the responses - both positive and negative - that my article (Yes, I'm wrote Graduating From A College I Can't Afford!) has received on this forum. Moreover, I'm thrilled that so many of the underlying issues regarding paying for college and student loans have surfaced in this discussion, which was my intent when writing this personal essay in the first place. I know many of you have asked questions about my whereabouts and current financial situation, so I'd like to bring everybody interested up to speed and clarify some points as well.

I had wanted to attend NYU since my freshman year of high school because I knew early on that I wanted to study journalism. Applying to NYU was not some big pipe dream to live in NYC for a few years and study performing arts as one of you suggested. NYU was one of the best schools I had learned of and had a prestigious journalism program that would no-doubt grant me access to our country's top publishing companies while I studied there. (And for the record, I didn’t play soccer and join clubs because I felt like I had too. Soccer was the love of my life since age 4 and I enjoyed every minute I spent with my peers in afterschool activities. It just so happens that when in high school it’s ingrained in your head that colleges like students who do X,Y, and Z, so who in their right mind wouldn’t try to overachieve in that department to make themselves look as good as possible on paper? And keep in mind, there’s also this little thing called editing when you write a piece for publication.)

When it came time to apply to colleges, there was never a discussion in my HS’ college admissions office about what I could afford. The conversations were always about what school you had a chance of getting accepted by, so naturally when I got my acceptance letter from NYU I felt like I had indeed earned it – and yes even deserved it, based on academics of course, not some notion of being entitled or having a “spoiled” upbringing. It was a sad reality that I didn’t want to face when my mother (my parents divorced when I was 13) sat me down and explained that she would not be able to contribute more than the equivalent of one semester to my education expenses. I had friends whose parents were footing the bill for their college education and others that were taking out student loans. Isn’t that what everyone does?

For me, my mother 1. Simply did not have the money to contribute (which I should mention had absolutely nothing to do with lavish vacations and a fancy things – we were very much middle- to lower-middle class that was still dealing with the financial issues that follow after a 2-income household becomes a 1-income household), 2. She did not feel obligated to pay for my college career because she herself had worked and paid her way through school 25 years earlier and 3. My parents had helped me save nearly $25,000 for my college career over my lifetime, but that just wasn’t enough. Saving for college was an expense they were more and more aware of, but it wasn’t at the top of their list, and understandably so since it wasn’t until I was in high school (1999-2003) that college costs started to rise at record rates and saving for your kid’s education became such a hot topic, until it was too late.

Despite financial worries, I made my decision – and it was MY decision as I was paying for more than 90% of my education – to attend NYU after MUCH resistance from my parents. Some of you have mentioned I was naïve and I couldn’t agree more. An 18-year-old does not and cannot understand how taking out such a large sum of loans will affect their future. You can explain until you’re blue in the face, but it means nothing when paying the bill seems so far off in life and the social norm. I do not blame my parents, as some of you have. I do not blame NYU, as some of you have. It is the system of higher education that is at fault. A few of you hit exactly on what the problem is too: at 18 you are an adult, yet your need for financial aid is based on your parents’ need whether or not they are willing to pay for any or all your schooling. Seems incredibly fraught to me. Especially when I would have received much more financial aid if I had moved out when I was 18, declared myself an independent and applied for financial aid on my own. But then again, this was not something they suggested in the financial aid office at my high school either.

I packed my bags and moved into New York City – where I lived and studied for my freshman and sophomore years of college. By halfway through my sophomore year when I applied for another private student loan over $15,000 I knew that something had to give, so I decided to move back home to my mother’s house and commute for the rest of school to save money the best way I could. I held a part-time job all four years of school and supported myself completely. I paid for my own food, clothing, car insurance, gas, social activities – you name it. I considered transferring a couple of times to save money because student loans were constantly stressing me out, but I thought what good was attending at all if I don’t get my diploma from NYU after how much I had already invested. Besides that, what kept me going were the professionals I was studying under and the experiences from internships that I had started to take on (which I still believe were made possible because I attended NYU and was in/so close to NYC).

Fast-forward to graduation. I had already began paying back some of my government loans because I consolidated them as soon as I was able to lock in at a lower interest rate. I deferred payment on my private student loans – which were the bulk of my debt – for 6 months after graduation to get my feet on the ground but still had to pay interest (nearly $200 per month alone). Luckily, I had landed a job at a major consumer magazine (which I previously interned at) as an editorial assistant in March 2007, two months before I graduated. I was promoted to Assistant Editor less than a year later and again to Associate Editor less than eight months after that. My growing – but still modest! – salary eventually allowed me start to pay off my monthly student loan bill, which at it’s highest was over $850. (Because I haven’t consolidated my private student loans yet (I would have had to lock in at a higher interest rate to do so) and the interest rate is variable, I have the unexpected benefit of paying 2.5% interest currently because of the market, which brings my payments down to about $660 per month.) Unfortunately, with private student loans there are not many options when it comes to repayment and consolidation right now. I am still waiting to lock in at an interest rate that’s reasonable, and therefore I’m stuck with paying large sums each month for the next 10 years.

While this monthly payment is insanely large, I do make ends meet. I have to. Period. I never moved back into the city and to this day commute from Long Island to work. I don’t have a fancy car – I drive a beat up 1999 Jeep to avoid unnecessary car payments (when I already pay $300 in train tickets) and my car sits at the train station. I don’t, however, eat Ramen like I did back in college. I shop smart when it comes to food and clothes and stick to a budget! While I’m strict with my spending because I have to be, I in no way feel like I’m missing out on anything money can buy. In fact, I’m completely happy with my life and my job and I love where I am right now. I got married last year - thankfully my husband has a tenth of my student loan debt! – and we’re currently saving for a house. We live in the apartment in my husband’s parents’ house where we pay rent but still try to put money away each month. Is it hard? Absolutely. But so was saving for our wedding and we managed that too. It’s only natural that I wonder if my student loans weren’t so large if we could own a house already. But then I remind myself that I’m not even 25 and with the state of the economy and the housing market I’m doing pretty damn well.

I completely despise the amount I write on that check to Citibank each month, but I can’t say I completely “regret” going to NYU because I’ve ended up exactly where I wanted to be. I went to my dream school. I landed my dream job. I do of course wish that I could have paid a quarter of the price and got the same results. But no one can say if it all would have happened the same way for me. I do think I am motivated enough of a person to achieve my dreams no matter what, but I like many high school students out there, felt pressured by this so-called hype of going to the best school possible.

I also want to remind everyone that the financial perspective of a student graduating from high school in 2003 was much different from those about to graduate in 2010. Seven years ago this country was not in a recession. 18-year-olds weren’t witnessing their parents’ finances changing rapidly before their eyes – they were watching them live normal life and take out loans for just about everything because that’s they way the middle- and lower- class survived. The bottom line is that nearly ten years ago, a lot of us signed up for much more than we would be able to handle in our future. Had I seen what 18-year-olds today are seeing, I’d like to think I would have better understood what signing all those loan papers would have meant for my future.

When students come to me after reading my article and ask what they should do, I advise them not to take out the loans if they can get a similar education for less somewhere else. Reason being, I think employers understand better today that the best pool of applicants no longer comes from the “best colleges” because most people can’t afford to go to those schools anymore. While a lot has changed, much more needs to change to make sure students like myself make better, more informed decisions about college and that they aren’t swayed by societal pressures when it comes to choosing a school.

For now, I just keep looking forward.

TwistedxKiss · 11-13-2009, 12:37 PM

Thank you for posting! I appreciated hearing how you are doing and clarification on what was said in your essay.

I just have to mention this...

"Especially when I would have received much more financial aid if I had moved out when I was 18, declared myself an independent and applied for financial aid on my own."

THAT is not an option either, which really irks me. I have a friend who was promptly kicked out of his parents house at 18 and it doesn't make a difference, his parents income determines his aid, they won't cosign a private loan, and so until he can earn enough credit to take one himself or he turns 24 he just doesn't get to go. The only way to become an independent is to turn the right age, get married, have a kid, or maybe if your parents die or something. THAT is the part that really gets me. We have NO OPTION to apply on our own pretty much no matter what the circumstances are. I would have done WHATEVER it took to be able to file myself (except rush my marriage, which we actually briefly considered before deciding it was worth 50k each to wait... something I still wonder about), but there isn't any way to do it.

FallGirl · 11-13-2009, 01:12 PM

TJEDLICKA- I appreciated your post and hearing your point of view. Most of the posting reflect the parent's views and it is nice to hear from a student who made a choice and is willing to live by that choice. And by the way, I don't think it was a bad choice, it sounds like a good one for you.

Quote:

I have a friend who was promptly kicked out of his parents house at 18 and it doesn't make a difference, his parents income determines his aid, they won't cosign a private loan, and so until he can earn enough credit to take one himself or he turns 24 he just doesn't get to go.

twisted- I agree that stinks for your friend. However I do understand why students are not just allowed to declare themselves independent for financial aid purposes. Every other upper middle class student would do so and parents would encourage it as a way to get out of paying for their child's college. I have a friend who was in a similar situation, she attended cc for 2 years then transferred to a state school to finish. It wasn't easy but she did it.