Kicked Out of ROTC - Page 2

PackMom · 01-26-2009, 06:46 PM

The Army is a lot easier to get in than the Air Force. Army is not particular about degrees. MOWC, it is entirely possible that your friend's S could join the Army ROTC program at his school right now. I'm assuming that he prob. failed Calculus and Physics (2 semesters of each are required for NROTC). Army ROTC does not require either of those courses. If so, he could finish sch. debt free and enter the Army as an officer.

If he is interested in going Army, he should contact the AROTC unit at his school right away and see what the possibilities are as far as ROTC.

cptofthehouse · 01-26-2009, 07:31 PM

It is a tough situation. When signing for that ROTC scholarship, it is spelled out what the consequences of failing courses/not making the standards. Usually those kids who are in the position to get these scholarships have been such good students that this likelihood is not even considered. Even warning kids and parents about those consequences usually does little good as they think that there is no possibility of this happening.

MomofWildChild · 01-26-2009, 07:42 PM

This is a kid who is probably ADD but never got tested because you can't take the meds and be in ROTC.

lamom · 01-26-2009, 08:11 PM

wow, this happened to a girlfriend's step son. Math was the problem. He was in Navy ROTC, as I recall he kept flunking. This was at least 6 years ago. I do recall he tried to join the Navy and tried to find out how much $ he owed if he didn't enlist. Everything I know is second hand. Supposedly the Navy could never give him a start date?? He never could get a $$ amt owed. He eventually joined the local county sheriff dept and is working the county jail till he has put in enough time to go out on the streets. Last I heard he never paid and was waiting to find out how to make payments. Good luck to them. I know the son was not very aggressive in finding out information. I cannot imagine law enforcement hired him if he owed the Navy time.

Good luck to the friend.

JustAMomOf4 · 01-26-2009, 08:16 PM

Three ways to be an officer - all require a college degree these days -
graduate from a Service academy, graduate from ROTC or graduate from OCS - Officer candidate school.

Enlisted personnel who earn college degrees can apply to OCS to become an officer - this is quite common.
Many college graduates enlist. Some just don't want to be officer and some like the specific job better.
The Air Force is highly technical - they are very computer driven and like their officer to have technical degrees.
Army could care less what your degree is in - it's about leadership.

pugmadkate is correct - this young person needs support and his life is not over - far from it.

If he does enlist - then he can continue taking college courses and even earn his degree.
After his obligation to pay back ROTC - his service time for the GI Bill should kick in. Three years of service gets you tuition, books and a living stipend (E-4 I think).

ellemenope · 01-26-2009, 08:19 PM

I never realized this aspect of ROTC (that you have to check out the required classes and be sure you can pass them before signing up for ROTC).

I, too, have heard of people who transferred over from one service ROTC to another service ROTC. Sounds like an option unless the sub par grades will kill that plan.

jym626 · 01-26-2009, 08:33 PM

While I don't know the answer to this question , I happen to have a houseguest who is a high ranking Army officer. I'll be happy to ask him this q and see if he knows anything about this.

jym626 · 01-26-2009, 08:35 PM

btw, justamomof4, can't one also be a non-commissioned officer? Are NCO's technically considered officers??

jym626 · 01-26-2009, 09:17 PM

MOWC-
Sent you info backchannel

JustAMomOf4 · 01-26-2009, 09:54 PM

In the context of this thread - "officer" is meant to be "Commissioned Officer".
The highest NCO ranks lower than a 2nd LT or Ensign - lowest ranking Commissioned Officer.

ellemenope - one does not "sign up" for an ROTC scholarship. You must complete a very comprehensive and competitive application. Navy ROTC scholarships are very competitive and one must qualifiy academically with fairly high Math SAT scores. Midshipmen are told upfront what courses they must pass to complete the program.
Since the Navy is a highly technical service and provides officers for ships and subs - they require all midshipmen to take Calculus and physics.
Any student who receives the scholarship has the ability to pass the courses.
Of course, as we all know - life occassionally interferes with ability.

MOWC - if he can document this a medical discharge may be possible - but then his military career would be over.

MomofWildChild · 01-26-2009, 09:57 PM

It might be too late for a medical discharge since the disenrollment decision has been made.
Thanks, all, for the great information. I'll pass it on. Calculus was failed and was being made up- and then physics was failed. SAT math score was very high. College was a different deal, though.

dragonmom · 01-26-2009, 10:26 PM

Maybe this thread should be cross-posted in the FinAid/scholarships forum so students who are considering ROTC scholarships could see what happens if grades aren't met, and understand that different branches of the service want different grades in different subjects.... and what can happen if you can't make the requirements.
Scholarships from your university or from outside sources can be halted if you don't make their requirements, but I think ROTC scholarships are unique in that you might owe the already spent funds to be repaid. Kids need to know this. Parents need to know this.

HoppingLass · 01-27-2009, 12:19 AM

MomofWildChild, I am wondering if your young friend is at Texas A&M, which has a powerful but massively time consuming Corps of Cadets. The members of the Corps love it like life itself -- and many (including my bro, years ago) can find the many tasks of being a gung-ho upper classman make it virtually impossible to hone in on classes.

The parents can and should zoom to campus and meet EXTENSIVELY with the advisors. Almost certainly, the student is heartsick and uncertain. Parents are going to be the ones who can sort out all the details of all the options. I know, I know, that we all want our young adults to sort these things out for themselves, but I think it is easy for outsiders to underestimate the power of a tight knit Corps -- to include the mindset that closes the mind to certain paths (such as transferring to an ROTC unit at another, less overwhelming school).

My heart goes out to this young man. I will bet my bottom dollar that he wants to be a success. He wants to be a graduate. He wants to be an officer -- and, instead, he's off in a swamp, feeling like a failure.

My brother's path to success was to change from an engineering degree to an engineering tech degree -- a less rigorous (and less prestigeous) major. But that also meant the math course that had him on academic probation was no longer a requirement. He ended up needing an extra semester to finish his degree -- and went on to serve as an officer in the Marine Corps. It was brutal on him to have to cut back on some of his Corps of Cadets responsibilities, but he managed.
Good luck to your young friend.

MomofWildChild · 01-27-2009, 08:32 AM

Thanks- it's actually a midwest public. Life certainly does go on- they are sorting this out and I will report back in.

pugmadkate · 01-27-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

but I think ROTC scholarships are unique in that you might owe the already spent funds to be repaid. Kids need to know this. Parents need to know this.

They do know it. ROTC scholarships are not just handed out to anyone who asks. It's a competitive process that take a lot of time and effort. Once in the ROTC program, students are given one year to change their minds/wash out with no obligation. Students are also given a semester probation if they fail a class/their GPA is too low. The consequences are well understood by all involved.

Momofwildchild, I'm glad to hear that they are sorting this out. This student's entire future has changed but that does not mean they have no future. Too often young people have trouble grasping that and it can lead to consequences far worse than owing money.