Advice needed: Happily Ever After or a PhD

[MiamiDAP]

I am not sure I understand the question. I know plenty of people (myself included), who were married, had kids, had full time jobs and went to graduate school in a evening and graduated with awesome GPAs some of them from very selective / highly ranked schools that even reguire hour travel one way. Everything is possible, just need to know exactly what you want.

[idad]

Mark me down as another who earned a Ph.D. while married to a women who also was earning her Ph.D. while having two kids. We both worked a variety of jobs as well as went to school and took turns with the kids, often bringing them to our school offices. It is amazing what can be done. All I can remember was how much fun we had.

[hmom5]

Am I understanding correctly that if you choose marriage you will be married people, neither of whom has great job prospects? You'll buy whatever home you can afford on your small salaries and then what? Both work in low end jobs for the rest of your lives? I think you'd end up hating the house that enslaved you.

I see nothing mature about doing that. When you settle down it should be because both of you have done what you need to do as individuals to get where you want to go. If you can do it together, great, but if you were my child thinking of cutting your potential short to set up house I would not help pay for that wedding!

I would also not feel good about a potential spouse who was worried about trouble replacing a minimum wage job more than your mutual, successful future and not wanting to invest in that.

[VeryHappy]

Originally Posted by briseis

I have no intention of being dependent on my husband and I'm sure most women would agree that any other arrangement (if it's long-term anyway) is rather old-fashioned and likely to cause drama before the end.

It is also not a good idea to go into the marriage and buy a house with the expectation that you will always work. Buying a house now that depends on two incomes means that you will never be able to change your mind -- to be a stay-at-home-mom, for example, or to try to start your own business, or to change careers and earn less for a while.

Be careful what you wish for.

Again, I see no reason why you have to decide anything right now. Spend six months or a year enjoying your boyfriend, seeing about graduate school, and take it from there. If you can't decide right now what to do, maybe you're not ready to make a decision.

[Inthebiz]

Can you get into a PhD program that not only pays your tuition and fees but also a "decent" stipend. (By the way, my advice to ANYONE looking at a PhD program in the humanities is to ONLY go to a program that offers tuition + decent stipend - it's foolish (in my opinion) to go into debt to get a degree in English or history or philosophy, etc. when the chances are very real you may never get a tenure-track faculty position and even if you do, they don't pay very well and you'll have a problem paying off your loans.)

If this were possible, I would not be facing this dilemma. Yes, I have heard this same argument, which is why I'm being rather conservative (and I am, I'll admit it). I cannot get more than I listed in my first post anywhere, and getting that much would be hard enough, because these scholarships are competitive.

I know you don't want to hear this, but, if you cannot get into a good/competitive English Lit program that will give you decent funding, you might want to re-think your goals. IF you want to become a faculty member at a university, college, and MOST community colleges, you will face competition from people coming out of the types of programs you say you cannot get into. There are many people who are in those programs who will never get tenure-track jobs - who will end up being low-paid adjuncts and lecturers until they grow frustrated and find another career. People coming out of "less prestigious" programs have virtually no chance at a faculty job.

If you are going to grad school because you love English Lit and have no expectation of teaching, that's great but you have to think about what you are going to do when you're done with your degree. Going into debt to get a degree that won't get you a job is a luxury that most people cannot afford. It IS something you can do part-time, at night, when you're working another job.

[alh]

Veryhappy gives great advice upthread.

On the other hand, I'm quite terrified of the debt I may be in after graduation and also not entirely comfortable with the idea that my boyfriend will be paying for our living expenses and working an underpaid and unexciting job for the next so many years, just so that I can pursue a dream we once shared.

Are you considering marrying him because you feel sorry for him or somehow guilty he isn’t still pursuing his dream?

I have no intention of being dependent on my husband and I'm sure most women would agree that any other arrangement (if it's long-term anyway) is rather old-fashioned and likely to cause drama before the end.

I believe you have answered your own question in the OP. Decide where you want to be in 5, 10, 20 years from now without regard to this boyfriend. Does he fit into these scenarios?

[Briseis]

Inthebiz - while I appreciate your advice, it is not applicable to my situation. I do not wish to reveal too many details about this, as it is not relevant to my question, but even if I would get into the best and most competitive programmes in the country (and that is what I am aiming for - I love research for the sake of research and my subject, but my dream is a career in academics, not just the title) I would not get more than what I outlined in my first post.

I hear all your stories about doing a PhD while being married, but I guess it's somewhat different if you are both pursuing an academic career and involved in student life.

[Briseis]

I wish to marry him because I love him. Yes, he does lack some ambition. On the other hand, he is an excellent cook, keeps the house clean while I am stressing over deadlines, extremely caring and always supportive. I'd almost say gender roles reversed, but have no wish to insult his masculinity.

[alh]

^^do NOT marry while this conflicted. Live together if you want. If your parents object be discreet. JMHO

[coureur]

When I was in grad school (and married), I used to shower in the dark to save that little bit of money needed to burn the bathroom light for 5 minutes - just one example. When I finished my Ph.D. I sold my bicycle to get together enough money for gasoline to drive to a new town for my first job. I've never regretted for one minute the sacrifices I had to make to earn my graduate degree.

Don't give up either of your dreams. A smart person can think of all sorts of creative ways to make it all work.

[mom2and]

You and your bf need to take a hard look at where you BOTH want to be in 5 yrs or 10 yrs. If obtaining a PhD in English is something you once both shared, how will he feel if he helps you get your PhD, while he is toiling at a minimum wage job? What is his goal? At the very least, forego the big wedding and house purchase for now and figure out what you both want to do.

You can get married if you like and work part-time while getting your PhD. As other have said, my DH and I were both in grad school at the same time and both of us worked as well.

That being said, I chose not to continue on to obtain the PhD, stopping at a masters. After taking a long, hard look at what recent graduates from my program were going through in getting jobs (a top-rated program in an engineering science), it did not seem compatible with where my DH needed to be to achieve his career goals. Plus, I knew I wante do have a family and continue to work, but not have all of the financial pressure. I have an interesting job, do some research, and three kids. I honestly have no regrets.

There are many paths to happiness and success. Sometimes when we are in school, that seems to be the best path.

[Briseis]

We have been living together for three years.

[MiamiDAP]

nmom5, can you, please, explain what you mean by
"When you settle down it should be because both of you have done what you need to do as individuals to get where you want to go."
Do you mean that you stop being human being pursuing your own interests if you get married? That sounds like enslavement, not marriage. I have changed my profession completely while being married and having kids and working full time all of which were my choice and great fun and I would not give up any of it. It would made me very mad if I was told that I have to limit one thing because I want another. That would feel like restricting of personal freedom.

[SlitheyTove]

I agree with mom2and that you and your boyfriend need to think about the long-term picture and what you want to be doing 10 years from now. Let's say that you continue through and receive your PhD....what next? The job market in academia is a tough one. What are your thoughts about what you'll do if you don't snag a college teaching job? What about if you DO snag one, but it's located a couple thousand miles away from where you live now? If you decide to go to work full-time now and buy a house, again, what are your hopes and dreams for what you'll do next? Do you see yourself as someone who will be very career-centered, or will both of you aim for early retirement, or will you both do whatever is necessary to travel or spend as much time as possible with your (hypothetical) children?

Regarding pursuing a PhD when only one person is in school: I'm part of a long-married couple where one person got a PhD while the other person worked full-time. However, the worker bee had already finished grad school, and the PhD student worked part-time, so household income wasn't an issue. The worker bee got the social benefits of being able to be part of the campus community (e.g. access to the gym, cheap theater tix, broader social circle). The PhD student got the social benefits of being aware that there was more to life than just school, and committed to being home for dinner every night.

[jessiehl]

I hear all your stories about doing a PhD while being married, but I guess it's somewhat different if you are both pursuing an academic career and involved in student life.

Really? You can't be a married student who has a life of socialization and hobbies (i.e. your involvement in student life) that's separate from that of your husband? Why not?

Like many people, I also don't understand why you think you need to buy a house now. Don't drink the Kool-Aid that says that Real Grownups Own Their Homes - that's crap. Real Grownups make decisions based on what is reasonable and responsible in their own circumstances, rather than on pernicious societal myths. And you certainly don't need to be homeowners to get married - I have a lot of friends who are counterexamples there.

If an expensive wedding is important to you, why not just postpone it until after you get a PhD? You've already lived together in a committed relationship without marriage for years. Or, if the expense is so important to your family's cultural background, and you don't care so much, maybe your family should be willing to chip in if they want to see it happen.