IB Diploma Program - Page 3

Marian · 05-06-2009, 03:46 PM

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(Stinks that the state tech ed requirement has been changed. It really messed things up at the math/science program, too.)

You can still take the required tech ed courses in summer school; you just have fewer courses to choose from.

My daughter got the scheduling flexibility she needed by taking both of her tech ed courses and her health course in summer school. Of course, this pretty much ruined one and a half summers, but it enabled her to do what she wanted in terms of curriculum.

Maybe if she had been in curious77's school system, she wouldn't have had to do this!

king81 · 05-09-2009, 03:44 PM

S is guinea pig IB student. Despite enthusiastic school coordinator, significant first-year hiccups. Here's what I would have done differently:

1) Demand leniency for guinea pigs' class grades. Our teachers have already changed tactics midstream based on kids' performance on IB curriculum. Kids grades suffered. Teachers now offering extra-credit opportunities to balance out disadvantage.

2) For specific colleges of interest to you, the coordinator/counselor should be willing to show you evidence of how that school views IB (and IB diploma vs individual IB classes vs AP). I've been left to my own devices - ain't easy to figure out. This should be coordinator/counselor role.

3) Value IB as you would any consumer product or service. Not to diminish importance - it's our kids education. But do recognize that IB organization is absolutely trying to "market" its' program. Be an informed consumer.

4) The IB power point presentations you'll see are "marketing" to parents. Info can be misleading. Examples (and my response):
a) Some colleges automatically accept IB Diploma kids (Yes - but relevant only if your kid wants to go to Oregon State, Florida...)
b) Colleges' acceptance rates for IB Diploma kids are much higher than "average" (Sure, but most of these kids will have higher grades/scores than kids at-large anyway. The presentation material doesn't show Diploma acceptance rates vs AP acceptance rates.)
c) All HL classes get AP-level credit (Extremely misleading. For two-year HL courses, often only the Senior year gets the AP-level credit!)
d) Colleges prefer IB diploma kids over AP kids (I've scoured everywhere and can't find good evidence of this. but, nothing that contradicts this either)

5) Not all IB Diploma programs created equal. Per earlier posts, IB Diploma track can actually force your kid to take lower-than-AP-level classes. Again, very important that you know how a specific college views this. And again, you should require that the counselor/IB coordinator research this for you.

Hope this helps.

And, if anyone knows if University of Calif prefers IB Diploma over AP or vice-versa, please post.

kayakmom · 05-09-2009, 04:01 PM

this topic couldn't have come at a better time for me.. thanks for the advice.
our local ib programs are recent additions and are in historically poorly performing schools to attract high -performing students
i've noticed that the students get much higher scores in art/music/and then language arts and lastly science and math (ib scores posted in newspaper)
i have spoken to several kids about their workload and now i think my son will be much better off in the math/science magnet school...just saying ib ,after reading and talking about it and now after these posts, seems like it would not be the best fit for him.

Georgia30720 · 05-09-2009, 04:17 PM

Our high school offers both AP and IB, and a mix/match approach is what both of my sons have chosen. They have had some friends do the full IB program, but many do not score high enough on the exams to get the IB diploma. Here in Georgia, the public university system will actually exempt you from your freshman year if you have an IB diploma, so the school administration has told us.

Our personal experience is that the full IB program does not offer enough flexibility for my sons to take the courses they are interested in, mostly because they are heavily into music and the other arts. So they take what classes they want in each, often based on who is teaching them. My oldest wanted to take band and chorus all 4 years (which he did), but his friends doing the full IB program were unable to do that, even if they wanted to. We also had an absolutely brilliant student a few years ago who only did AP courses combined with math courses offered at the community college. IB would not have let him do that.

We had one student earn the IB diploma at our school last year, and she is currently at Georgia Tech as a history major. If you are interested in math, science or engineering I think AP courses are a better choice. If you are skilled at writing, enjoy projects and are better in history and English, then IB is a better choice.

CoffeeAddict9716 · 05-09-2009, 04:20 PM

Make sure you like to write before joining IB...all of my classes require lengthy writeups, whether it be biology/chem labs, history investigative papers, english papers, the Extended Essay, math studies project, etc. Moreover, all of the exams are writing-heavy--I just finished my first 3 this past week, and my hand was cramping up like crazy from the 1st of 2 english essays I have to write, 6 history essays and 1 section of shorter responses that probably add up to another 1-2 essays, and biology short answer questions for 2 days. You must be able to write clearly and engagingly in a short amount of time for IB. If this does not appeal to you, in no way should you venture to complete the full IB Diploma.

Also, if Ap's are offered, I think I would recommend those---I only get a few IB credits for schools, and because of it cannot afford NYU. If I had taken the same amount of classes but in APs, I could easily afford the school...I regret that my school does not offer many APs, and feel gypt out of the college credits my school claimed I would receive for completing the IB Diploma.

Secret Asian Man · 05-09-2009, 05:14 PM

Yes, enjoying writing (or at least being willing to do it) is necessary. And since most schools only give credit for HLs, I would definitely try and take the respective APs for SL courses, and perhaps you can take other AP classes as well.

Regarding the flexibility (or lack thereof), I am able to do band all four years as a diploma candidate. Roughly 60-80 students receive the diploma every year, and many are involved in the arts and sports, as well as electives.

Marian · 05-09-2009, 06:41 PM

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i've noticed that the students get much higher scores in art/music/and then language arts and lastly science and math (ib scores posted in newspaper)

Well, this depends on the particular school and how effectively they teach the IB curriculum. In my daughter's IB program, kids did fine in science and math, just as they did in the other subjects (although as a group, they did better in HL History than anything else).

But this was a school with 20 years of experience teaching IB, selective admission to the IB program, and a near-100% success rate in terms of kids getting the IB diploma. I wouldn't expect fledgling IB programs or those that must accept all comers, no matter how underqualified, to do anywhere near as well.

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Also, if Ap's are offered, I think I would recommend those---I only get a few IB credits for schools, and because of it cannot afford NYU. If I had taken the same amount of classes but in APs, I could easily afford the school...I regret that my school does not offer many APs, and feel gypt out of the college credits my school claimed I would receive for completing the IB Diploma.

One way to maximize credit is to take AP exams after taking IB courses. Sometimes, the student will score high enough to get credit. If you don't mind paying for and taking the AP exams, it's worth a try.

CountingDown · 05-09-2009, 10:11 PM

S2 is a full diploma candidate and is taking the corresponding AP exams for all of his Standard Level IB exams. It helps that his SL courses are taught as joint AP/IB classes (that way there are enough people enrolled so they can offer a wider variety of classes to IB and non-IB students), so they get to cover pretty much everything on both exams. It is costing us the $85/exam, adds a bit to the workload, and it makes the first three weeks of May a *fascinating* time, but it preserves his options for college credit/placement, esp. since we have no clear idea where he'll be headed for college.

We'll see at the end of first semester senior year (based on grades and if he thinks he'll be able to pull 6/7 scores) whether he takes the AP exams for his HL courses.

Karen Colleges · 05-10-2009, 10:53 PM

SL courses here are all 2 years. I don't think the kids have covered enough of the material to take the AP exam (or SAT II) before they finish the course in senior year. I wonder if there are overlaps in the test schedules between IB/AP exams? Guess I'll find out when D is a senior.

At S's school, SL's were a one year course, so they could have taken the AP's at the end of junior year.

LasMa · 05-10-2009, 11:43 PM

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If you are skilled at writing, enjoy projects and are better in history and English, then IB is a better choice. If you are interested in math, science or engineering I think AP courses are a better choice.

Our IB school just won the National Science Bowl.

CountingDown · 05-11-2009, 01:17 AM

Karen -- there is MAJOR overlap between IB and AP exam testing times. IB will not budge on scheduling; the school has to make special arrangements with College Board to give APs on alternative dates. (College Board is cooperative in that regard.)

AP is the first two weeks of May; IB is the first three weeks of May. With the schedule adjustments, many seniors taking the HL exams get AP exams bumped to the third week because of conflicts. Judging by this year's schedule, S2 will have three APs rescheduled next year due to conflicts with IB exams.

Most of the SL exams at S2's school are one year courses, so it makes the APs junior year very do-able in that sense. HL Bio is a double period senior year at his school, though, which really takes up a big chunk of one's schedule.

LasMa, congrats to your school!

LasMa · 05-11-2009, 02:22 AM

Thanks, CountingDown. Our IB kids have also placed as high as 6th in the National Science Olympiad and we've had multiple Intel Scholarship winners in this decade. The kids also have an ongoing project involving a local watershed, and the quality of their data is so good that it's been commissioned by the city government, the state water resources board, and UC Davis. Obviously science is a big focus here.

The point is, IB is not monolithic; while there is a program-wide curriculum and the tests are standardized thoughout the system, it is also true that individual schools can take one subject, in our case science, and run with it. Bottom line, parents who are researching IB for their kids need to look into the program at their particular school to know what its strengths and emphases are.

Marian · 05-11-2009, 06:54 AM

That's really interesting, LasMa.

I suspect that one reason why our IB school does not particularly emphasize science is that it doesn't attract a high proportion of science-oriented students. The school system also has a science-math magnet program (actually, there are now two of those, I believe), which tends to attract that population.

Every IB program -- and every school system that includes it -- is different.

Hunt · 05-11-2009, 09:21 AM

Just to add a point on taking AP exams in the same courses as IB. It may not be necessary. Especially if your kid has an early admission, but even if it's a regular admission, you may find that AP (and IB) exams may not have much impact. For example, at Yale, these exams do very little for you unless you want to accelerate. An exeption is getting a 5 on a foreign language AP, which can get you out of Yale's placement test. But for other subjects, you can self-place, or there is a college placement test (i.e., music theory).

Marian · 05-11-2009, 10:59 AM

The catch in what Hunt is saying is that seniors usually have to sign up for AP exams before they receive their college acceptances, and policies on AP credit vary from college to college.

My daughter, who applied and was accepted to college Early Decision, was able to choose her senior year AP tests based on what her college does and does not give credit for. (In fact, she decided to take the AP English Language test as a senior, which is really weird in our school system, because it could (and did!) help her place out of a writing course requirement.) But Regular Decision students often do not have that option (except for the option of choosing not to show up for an AP exam you've already paid for).