Blue Collar and Proud of It!

Sally_Rubenstone · 06-01-2009, 08:28 PM

As seniors make their final plans, and a new admissions cycle heats up, it's time to again remind anxious parents that college may not be the right choice for every child.

In Blue Collar and Proud of it: The All-in-One-Resource for Finding Freedom, Financial Success, and Security Outside of the Cubicle, author Joe Lamacchia, a Massachusetts landscaper, explains why he thinks "our high schools do a lousy job of letting graduating seniors know that not every satisfying career requires a college degree."

See Ronnie Polaneczky: College isn't the only path to the good life | Philly | 05/27/2009

emeraldkity4 · 06-01-2009, 09:23 PM

I don't think any country has this sorted.
I wish we could spend more time in childhood helping kids discover the ways they learn best and what interests them so that they have a clearer idea of the direction they could be successful in when they reach adulthood- but then that reminds too much of the tracking that is done in countries like the UK and Japan, where it is a good fit for some- but others who may be late bloomers are directed down a course that doesn't fit them and they have to fight like hell to find the right road.

In my area we have fairly low standards for high school graduation ( no foreign lang- only about 20 credits- which includes three years or so of math /science, no level criterion).
Since even our state schools all require foreign lang for admittance- at least two years of the same language for application, you need to be focused for college heading into high school ( since the first two years of a lang are generally scheduled around freshman level classes) and need a parent to demand you get the classes needed.

My younger daughter attended an inner city comprehensive school and I helped with college advising for students who may not have realized that they could go to college until junior year of high school. Then I had the task of helping them find a school that they could afford, with one that would admit them.

It was hard, because they were competing with students who had been groomed for college since K, and often their families thought they were " too big for their britches".
Even my inlaws thought that we were arrogant because we wanted our daughters to have the opportunity to attend college.

Its one thing if you decide after attending college, that you want to do something that doesn't require a diploma, or if you would rather apprentice to a trade, then write college essays, but it is another if that door is shut to you, because you weren't on the " college track" and it was never discussed as if it was even an option.

Nothing like having the door slammed in your face before you even head up the stairs.

IloveLA · 06-01-2009, 09:40 PM

beautiful post, ek.

NYMomof2 · 06-01-2009, 09:55 PM

I agree with everything you said, ek. My husband grew up in Germany, where kids are tracked in 4th grade on the basis of a standardized test. I believe that now there is other input, teacher recommendations, etc., but still, 4th grade! There are 3 tracks - the highest track is for kids headed to college, the lowest track trains for jobs like auto mechanics, and ends about 8th grade. Even though we don't do this formally here, and things are much more fluid, some kids are still effectively shut out very early from certain paths.

Leader06 · 06-02-2009, 01:02 AM

North America could take a few pointers from Finland's school system:

Several Lessons to Be Learned from the Finnish School System — Open Education

"...the differences between Finland and American education are enormous. High-school students rarely get more than a half-hour of homework a night in Finland. Furthermore, children don’t start school until they reach seven. There are no classes for the gifted students and no recognition organizations for those who achieve. There is also little in the way of standardized testing.

In other words, Finland educates its children with a model that is virtually the anti-thesis of what we do in America. Yet out of the 57 countries tested, Finland’s 15-year-old students earned some of the highest scores in the world."

The Finnish School System

Sally_Rubenstone · 06-02-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Its one thing if you decide after attending college, that you want to do something that doesn't require a diploma, or if you would rather apprentice to a trade, then write college essays, but it is another if that door is shut to you, because you weren't on the " college track" and it was never discussed as if it was even an option.

Nothing like having the door slammed in your face before you even head up the stairs.

I absolutely agree. I certainly do encounter kids who have been brought up to believe--for a number of reasons--that they are not "college material," and they realize that the college door has indeed been slammed at an early age.

But here on CC--and in my work beyond CC as well--I also find parents who insist on pushing their children in a direction that meets their own agenda rather than listening to what that child really wants ... and needs. I even worked with one mother who sought therapy when she realized that Child #2 would not be admitted to an Ivy-caliber college as her eldest child had been. At least this mom had the self-awareness to seek help and to understand that the problem was really her own and not her daughter's!

EMM1 · 06-02-2009, 09:02 AM

"It's time to again remind anxious parents that college may not be the right choice for every child."

The typical CC parent would say something like "it's time to remind OTHER parents that college might not be the right choice for THEIR children (but not my little darling, of course.)

csleslie51 · 06-02-2009, 09:16 AM

This thread is supported by this earlier thread The Case for Working With Your Hands and many others that have already been posted on CC.

MiamiDAP · 06-02-2009, 12:17 PM

Are you sure that college graduate and HS graduate have the same type of job security? I have met so many people that are doing professional jobs that is not related to their major in college at all. However, I got the feeling that if they did not have a college degree, this jobs would not be available for them at all. For example, Bio major working at the top financial firm, which is also paying for his MBA classes, engineers and teachers working as IT professionals (most IT jobs really do not need a college degree to be successful). All of them have an option of doing manual labor. Does person who never went to college has an option to get a professional job?

owlice · 06-02-2009, 12:24 PM

I graduated from college and have a professional job; the guy that fixes my heating and A/C system, who didn't graduate from college, takes MUCH more expensive vacations than I do. You know why? He makes more than I do! He has more than one revenue stream, and may have MORE income security than I do as a result.

A "professional job" is not the end-all and be-all of life. There are plenty of careers that are not "professional jobs" that are satisfying and well-paid, and many which do not require a college degree.

MiamiDAP · 06-02-2009, 12:30 PM

What if his back gives out for extensive period of time? What if he is sick for awhile? Under both conditions, I just grab my computer and work from home. Money is not everything.

owlice · 06-02-2009, 12:37 PM

Disability insurance. Many small business owners carry it; I did when I had my own business.

In addition to that, he has people working for him, so still has good cash flow even if he is not out in the field.

Alix2012 · 06-02-2009, 04:24 PM

Leader06 - I don't think the Finnish education system would work in the USA at all. Finland is a small country with a homoegeneous population. The USA is huge and diverse and there's cultural differences between Americans and the Finnish.

Overall, American public HS's aren't great. In some states, they don't teach evolution in Biology classes! College students can't distinguish between They're, There and Their, students don't learn basic geography, many can't point to the US on a map. Public education here is a joke here compared to many nations. Take away standardized testing and I'd be scared to see how much worse it gets.

Finnish students don't start school until age 7, but their parents teach them at home. I volunteer at public elementary schools in NYC where many students barely speak English, their parents are immigrants. These kids already struggle as it is, their parents often don't have time to teach them or aren't well educated themselves.The USA has a huge gap between rich and the poor. Under the Finnish education system, the well-off students would thrive as usual, the lower class students would be as a disadvantage. Studies have shown students who go to Nursery School or Pre-K already have an advantage over those who don't, I think starting at age 5 for Kindergarten is a benefit. Culture plays a large role. Japanese students do very well, I believe they go to class 6 days a week and their culture places a higher value on education. What works for one country doesn't always work for another.

I would love see less standardized testing in schools, but I think the system would only get worse without it. I go to NYU, a good college which attracts students from around the country, and I'm shocked at how ignorant some of my classmates are about certain things - they never learned about Evolution, some think we're in New England, some couldn't point to NY State on a map of the USA, they struggle in classes easier than the ones I took in HS - what the hell did they do in school for 12 years?!

In my opinion, a system with lots of freedom like the Finnish one is great for Finland, but I personally don't think it would work in the USA.

BCEagle91 · 06-02-2009, 04:34 PM

The Finnish system sounds like it has some of the same underpinnings that unschooling has.

Alix2012 · 06-02-2009, 04:56 PM

Unschooling isn't a bad idea. I think the American system would benefit from some aspects of the Finnish, like equal funding for each school, but we can't put aside the major cultural and socioeconomic differences between Finland and the USA. 1 in 12 American students is learning English. We have a massive gap in economic classes. Finland is a homogeneous culture of well-off people.

One thing I would love to see happen in the US is more of a standardized curriculum in all 50 states. It's ridiculous that students in Kansas are taught one thing and Massachusetts students another. The standard of education varies so much around the country! Poverty has a lot to do with it.

Sorry for hijacking the thread about blue collar workers. I wanted to address the Finnish school post. EmeraldKitty put it so well I can't add much to that.