Difficult Decision: Withdrawing Child From School

[hmom5]

Well, your decision is made, and I respect that.
But if there is a strained relationship, I wonder what will happen to that relationship now.

With all due respect, these are her parents and they decided to do what a lot of parent's refuse to--not take the easy way out. So many parents don't want to be the bad guys and allow their children to go on doing things they know are destructive. Taking that attitude has not done any kid I know a favor.

I'm not sure I'd feel like I had any relationship with my child if I was not doing everything in my power to get them on a good track anyway.

Waiting for the school to kick the child out is usually the worst approach from what I've seen. By that point most kids have dug a hole it's hard to get out of in terms of ever getting into a grad school or transferring.

Good work momma-three. Hopefully your follow through will help your DD get it. Like some of the others, I would not be paying for her phone except with a firm limit on number of minutes. The phone would become a safety tool, not the hub of her social life. And the phone would get taken away the first time she went over.

but that kids who love to be "in touch" and use the phone frequently do incredibly well in the business world.

I'm having trouble with this one. After three decades in business what I've learned is that you can tell a whole lot about business performance by examining discipline and accomplishments in college.

[poetgrl]

Cool. Just an informal reassurance. My B doesn't need a job so it'll probably be all right. When kids get off track it sometimes feels so dire, and sometimes it just isn't as dire as we think it is. I was a fantastic student, straight A's all the way through, and I've been a terriific teacher over the years, as well. But I will never have the skill set my brother has when it comes to people. Just one woman's experience. Nothing more.

[mdoc]

I think you're doing the right thing. You laid out what the expectations were and what the consequences would be if expectations were not met. Now it's time to follow through, and as hard as it may be for you (and your daughter), it's the right thing. It's better that she grow up now, and learn to appreciate her education, than to flounder and party at her current school when she's obviously not ready for it. Also, if you don't follow through with the consequences you laid out, why would your daughter think there would be any consequences next time? I think this is going to hurt you more than it hurts her (isn't that almost always the case?)

[Pea]

I've been accused of being too laid back as a parent but this one is easy. It's a waste of your money, which it sounds like you don't have in excess, and your daughter is just wasting her time if she isn't learning anything. Maybe it is the wrong school for her, some schools have a strong party track and kids who might be fine at another school where it isn't so prevalent get sucked into it.

Your daughter is a grownup and she has made her choices, now you're making yours. She is young and she has plenty of time to find her way. I second that you are getting excellent advice on this thread.

[AdvMom]

I just wanted to tell the OP that she has my support. We are going through something very similar with our D, and it is not fun. My D is trying to find a full-time job now, which is isn't easy in this economic climate.

[BCEagle91]

The OP has diagnosed the problem and is taking positive actions to correct the problem. Many parents never get beyond diagnosing the problem.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

Regarding the cell phone -

I agree with putting limitations on it but bear in mind that she might just substitute IMing for the texting and Skype/Windows Live Messenger or some other VOIP for the voice calls. It probably won't be quite as convenient but it could be done and she could still have the distractions. And if she has a laptop she could probably do it in class as well (which is what many who bring laptops to class do with them anyway when not cruising the internet or playing a game).

What she really needs to do is accept that she has to mature and control her own actions (cell, laptop, partying, non-studying, etc.) if she wants to continue to receive your financial backing.

[compmom]

Just a personal feeling, but I never like behavioralism in parenting (meaning rewards and punishments). The motivation needs to come from within, if the student is really going to progress emotionally, intellectually and developmentally.

It sounds like the original poster and daughter have come to an agreement. Is that right? This type of situation can be negotiated between parents and child in a way that preserves the rights of the parents, but also the dignity of the kid.

It is possible that a young woman doing that much cell phone calling and texting might have been having some trouble adjusting to being away from home. Perhaps the socializing was also sort of covering up some emotional pain with the transition to college.

I hope for everyone's sake that CC turns out to be a happy option- not a punishment, but a good option - and that the path becomes clearer as a result.

(I have a daughter who is distractible, social, and hates school..she also dances...she is not going to college next year, by mutual agreement. This also raises the interesting issue of whether they all SHOULD go to college, period. Our daughter is looking into learning Pilates or other body work, and going to dance)

[emeraldkity4]

Iam confused
I see that the OP has twin boys at an Ivy and another son at possibly another Ivy, but then there is a daughter as well?
I understand what others are saying- but I have another perspective.
It sounds like the parents are not together on this one.
One parent felt strongly that the child was not ready to go off to college, the other did.
I don't know what sort of school this was- or what sort of supports are available for new students.
I don't know what sort of guidelines the parents tried to put in place given that there was indications that going off to college wasn't the best idea and I don't know what sort of communication they had with their daughter during the school year.

I don't think threats work with most kids- not when there aren't clear identifiable steps to take for success. I don't feel it is enough with most kids to just say- straighten up or else- not when that is too overwhelming to know where to start.

My gut feeling tells me that the obsession with " partying" and text messaging is a band-aid for dealing with anxiety, depression or some other issue.
I really doubt that the incidence of cell phone use is a dramatic increase from high school- some kids have pay as you go- and some kids have basic phones- ( my daughter didn't have one till junior year of college!)

My strongest warning signal is going off around the " not on academic probation- but still not maintaining needed GPA for major"

Well- freshmen don't usually declare a major- that seems unusual- I am aware that science majors can be most successful when they start with the pre-reqs in freshman year- just because there are so many before they can take the upper division classes in the major.

Perhaps she was taking too many classes freshman year- college is a big adjustment and if she is working full time, or even more than 10 or so hours a week, maybe she needs more time.

Perhaps her high school preparation wasn't all it could have been or perhaps the major/college are not really what she feels she wants and forcing the issue is one way to get out of it?

[toadstool]

At some point one need to stop searching for causes and deal with the financial hemorrhage. People have lived without cell phone and colleges for millennia; somehow the species survived. The daughter needs to pay for her own toys, particularly if she is not holding up her side of the social contract. Don't pay for more college that she clearly is not ready for. And stop paying for phone.

[momofthreeboys]

I think you need to "trust your gut". Some kids just aren't emotionally mature enough to understand that college is not grade 13 and need time to get their heads wrapped around the difference. You've gotten some good advice, and I think your gut has been telling you for a while that she wasn't ready. If she can take some courses locally, succeed and have those courses transfer back to her college so she can return, then it sounds like you have your answer. Great advice from everyone on the phones.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

Okay - more regarding the phone. Firstly, I think it's receiving too much focus here because it's probably more symptomatic of the root issue than causal. Secondly, if she pays for her own phone the problem simply continues. So the OP's family would save roughly $150/year but they'd still pay the large college costs. The D most likely could come upon with the roughly $500/year it'd cost her to carry the phone herself. the end result is that she still has the phone, misuses it, and the problem hasn't been solved.

(I'm talking about a similar family - it looks like this one has addressed some of the issues already)

[momma-three]

TO EMERALDKITY4 You are absolutly correct. We have three others attending highly selective schools. However, initially both my husband and I agreed that our daughter was not ready for college and we had both encouraged her to investigate Americore or some other interesting yet worthwhile gap year. Our daughter would not hear of it probably because none of her siblings took that path. We were each on the same page and in fact our daughter had signed a contract with the expectations clearly set forth. My husband only disagreed when I was ready to enforce the contract when she was barely off the required GPA in one area. You are very smart emeraldkity and you have hit the nose on the head on several of your statements (are you a psychologist?) so I am impressed. My daughters major requires that she declare her major the first semester of soph year but in order to do so she must have the solid 3.0 in all areas. The interesting thing is that the way the program is designed she needed to start the major classes upon entering as a freshman. If she did not do so she would have needed an additional semester and possibly a year to complete the degree.
During school she does not work more than 8 hours a week (and yes she was texting then too). I also tried communicating with our daughter throughout the year and for the most part she would tell me she was too busy to talk. I started with suggestions to go speak to proffessors during office hours, seek tutoring,and even to speak to a councelor. It all fell on deaf ears and she did none of the above.

You are also correct in stating that the cell phone is certainly a contributing factor which is obvious but it is a symptom and not a cause. A student who wants to succeed will not behave so irresponsibly. The advice I have received has been wonderful regarding the cell phone and I will cut the texting out within a certain period of the day but I do not like policing an almost 19 year old. However I have always been the type of mom who says what I mean and I believe that we were fair regarding the contract and now we must stick to it. I am afraid that if we do not stand firm and allow our youngest to know we mean business then she will continue the party at our expense, but the scary part is that she will not have a future to be proud of. We just want her to be a responsible adult that does not take her very strapped and generous parents for granted.

[mantori.suzuki]

momma-three, have you considered that your daughter's behavior may be addictive and indicate a lack of impulse control that warrants therapy? It is so extreme that I don't think simple explanations such as immaturity and lack of desire to succeed are adequate. She may need to talk to someone (after you lay down some strict rules, since inability to follow the rules is not an excuse for ignoring them). Good luck.

[emeraldkity4]

That does sound really difficult- I have a feeling that at least one of my friends daughters will have trouble transitioning to college but at least in our area it is becoming much more accepted to take a gap year.

My oldest did Americorps and my youngest was going to do that as well, but a very intense program of NCCC ( where they travel in teams- sleeping in church basements and working around the country), she ended up working a couple jobs to save up money to travel - I didn't have to talk them into it- I don't know what I would have done if they had been more stubborn - probably what you are doing.

Im not a psych- in fact I have never even attended a 4 yr college- but both my kids ( and myself) have neuro-processing issues so I have done a lot of reading and observing. It is more common now for people even with learning issues to be successful in college, but I think it is just as common for those whose struggles aren't real obvious or severe, to be undiagnosed.

Anyway- I have found for instance that attention problems, can be helped quite a bit by regular physical activity. Since your daughter seems to lean towards things with fast feedback ( texting) and had trouble with the bigger goal of why she was in college ( what? it wasn't to attend bigger parties? ), I am wondering if there are other things where she has a easier time paying attention.

Im not diagnosing her with ADD, there are a lot of things that interfere with attention, and frankly, the sheer amount of cell phone use would make me at least ask about some sort of anxiety ( from what I have read, anxiety can cause compulsive behavior)-

Once they hit 18, it can be pretty hard to get them to see they actually don't know everything & that is OK.
The community college could be a really good choice. I am attending a community college currently and they have a lot of supports- also because students are often not right out of high school, they are often more focused and mature which can give a different perspective to those students who are still really young.

She may be needing either just time to improve her study habits at the CC, or maybe even decide on more of a hands on type career. It isn't your fault, but having very academically successful brothers would be really difficult if you were a " late bloomer" and even if no one else ever compared her to them, you know she has to be doing it in her head.

Again, while I wouldn't expect you to pay for an expensive college if she is going to bomb her classes, I think it might be helpful if she was able to find something where she could be more successful. No matter what it is, if it is coaching a 5th grade girls soccer team, or taking a pottery class or even like my 18 year old did and save up money to travel through India for three months. ( you may have to get her friends to encourage her- cause she might resist anything that you think of)

I have found that confidence built up in other areas, then can transfer back to the situations where you have more trouble.