quick cornell question! please help**

debbie320 · 06-20-2009, 01:03 AM

We live in New York, and my son really wants to apply to Cornell. Does anyone know if the chances are better of getting into the human ecology or liberal arts school? he is very interested in psychology.

thank you!

bluebayou · 06-20-2009, 01:11 AM

Numbers alone, the liberal arts school (CAS) is more competitive. BUT, human ecology requires great essays to demonstrate passion and fit. For instate, the contract colleges are too good to pass up financially.

Ray192 · 06-20-2009, 01:19 AM

Well, since Human Ecology doesn't offer psychology.... why is he considering it?

debbie320 · 06-20-2009, 10:01 AM

The Department of Human Development offers some interesting psychology areas he is interested in, as does the College of arts and sceiences.
We just don't know which school is typically more competitive/difficult to get in to.

teenage_cliche · 06-20-2009, 10:45 AM

When you apply to Cornell you can choose to apply to two schools. Although you do have to mark one as your first choice, you get automatically considered for the second choice if you don't get into the first.

Also, I just glanced at the Cornell website quickly, and while I couldn't find admissions statistics for the two schools, I looked at admissions requirements and Human Ecology requires a math SAT II specifically, as well as another SAT II, so if you're planning to apply there just make sure you have that math test.

Good luck!

happymomof1 · 06-20-2009, 10:51 AM

Generally speaking, admission for NY State residents is easier at the state divisions than at the private divisions. Whether or not in your son's case it would be easier is something that we aren't in a position to predict. He really should visit the campus and tour both divisions. Happydad earned his M.S. and Ph.D. in Nutrition in the College of Human Ecology and I did my M.S. in Ag and Life Sciences. I continue to be impressed by the quality of the programs, and of the graduates of Human Ecology. If your son likes the program there, he should apply.

Wishing both of you all the best.

Marian · 06-20-2009, 10:56 AM

The previous posters have covered the two most important issues:

1) the SAT math Subject Test. If your son is likely to do poorly on this, then Arts and Sciences, which does not require it, may be the better choice.

2) the essays in the Cornell supplement (which will likely be available within the next few weeks). It is much more challenging to answer the Hum Ec essay (which requires the student to provide a convincing argument as to why Hum Ec is the right choice for him) than the more generalized A&S essay.

Both of these factors may offset the fact that the statistics (GPA, SAT) of entering students in Hum Ec are generally a little lower than those of students in A&S.

I am not sure whether it is still true that admission for NY state residents is easier at the contract colleges (such as Hum Ec) than at the private ones (such as A&S). This used to be the case, but I have heard that it may no longer be true.

debbie320 · 06-20-2009, 10:59 AM

he has a 710 in math I and is awaiting a math II score. could this maybe be good enough, assuming the math II is slightly higher?

Marian · 06-20-2009, 12:02 PM

I'm no expert (my daughter at Cornell is in Arts and Sciences) but I would think any score in the 700s would suffice, especially given that the major in Hum Ec that he would be applying to is not particularly math-oriented.

Still, Arts and Sciences would be looking at his two highest scores -- as long as they are in different subject areas -- so if he has taken more than two SAT Subject Tests and math is his lowest score, that might be something worth thinking about.

alamode · 06-21-2009, 01:05 AM

from what i heard while applying, it seems that it's not necessarily easier to get in to one of the state grant schools for NYS residents, but that the admissions process is by default slightly less selective because there are less applications.
i don't think that the slight difference is really going to have a significant effect.

some things you might want to consider would be

1. Size. Hum Ec is very small compared to A&S, I liked this because I originally wanted a medium sized school, but I was interested in a program unique to Cornell, and I eventually decided that being in a program of 20ish people in a college of around 1000 kids (which would mean about 250 freshman) would provide me with a small academic setting within a very large campus. A&S is the largest school at Cornell. If your son would prefer a smaller academic environment then HumEc would be the better choice, if not, A&S would be better.

2. Cost. Hum Ec for an NYS Resident is about 20k cheaper. That's a lot of money.

3. Fit. People I talked to while applying said that HumEc is actually harder to get into if you aren't in love with the college's philosophy. I, unfortunately, didn't get to visit until Cornell Days after being admitted, but if you get a chance I would definitely go to the HumEc Info session. When I went during Cornell Days it really helped me understand the philosophy of the school and how all the seemingly unrelated majors (interior design....and human development?) were actually all connected in an effort to improve human society. Although I hadn't completely understood the connection when I was applying, I realized that my Why HumEc? essay basically said the same thing, and how my outlook on my subject was similar to the HumEc philosophy. On the other hand, A&S has a much broader, intellectual, and liberal arts sense to it...learning to be a well-rounded individual. I think you should have your son read the literature of both colleges, explore the websites and curriculum for his major and how it differs between the schools.

i realize my post is more skewed towards HumEc, but this is simply because i know more about HumEc...I never attended an A&S info session or explored the website in depth or anything since my major was only offered in HumEc.
basically, though, he should just choose the school that he'd be happier at. he'll write a much better and more enthusiastic supplement essay if he really likes the school's philosophy.

monydad · 06-21-2009, 09:38 AM

The stats can be found (under "Institutional Research" or something),
Last year:

Hum Ec: 630-720 CR, 640-740M, 32% admitted
CAS: 650-740 CR, 670-770M, 18% admitted.

In either case, your chances are higher if you've visited, done your homework, examined the curriculums, environment of each school and really know that the school is for you.

Marian · 06-21-2009, 09:40 AM

The point alamode makes about the sizes of the different schools at Cornell is a good one.

Arts and Sciences is huge, and Psychology is one of the most popular majors. A student can easily get lost in the crowd in that sort of department. Some students don't mind this (my daughter is in another large department in A&S and doesn't mind at all), but others do.

marny1 · 06-21-2009, 11:07 AM

if it is at all possible, visit the school and have your son attend the individual college info sessions. My d is ILR grad and was also initially interested in psychology when she applied. During the ILR session, the admission counselor really took the time to explain how an ILR student could take ILR courses in Organizational Behavior and supplement her interest in psychology by taking electives in A&S. ILR is pretty liberal in its social science scope and allows alot of credits outside ILR. As my kids interests were more broad based in the social sciences including economics, history etc- she was more drawn to ILR than the Human Ec program and her interest in psychology sort of lessened as her AP Psych course continued.
But she really didn't understand the academic differences between ILR-Human Ec etc until her 2nd visit to Cornell when she attended the individual info sessions at Human Ec. and ILR.
Her first Cornell visit was a "walking tour" of the campus and though it was interesting, it really didn't give her the insight into the different programs at Cornell.
Applying to Cornell is unlike any other school. It really helps if you understand the distinct colleges and programs they have to offer. And as alamode said earlier-the info gained from the info sessions will help him with his essays as hopefully he will KNOW which program meets his academic interests and his enthusiasm for Cornell will shine through.

As you probably know the tuition for ILR-Human Ec- and Cals is considerably less for NYS residents. As the financial crisis continues, my hunch is that the contract colleges may see a big increase in applications. I think you need to concentrate on which program meets your sons interests and have him convey that in his application essays.
Many people who try to game the system and apply where they think they have the best shot at getting in, often get a rejection in April.
It's all about finding the right program for your kids interests.
Good luck.

Marian · 06-21-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Applying to Cornell is unlike any other school.

Yes. To a far greater extent than with most universities, Cornell consists of a group of quasi-independent schools and colleges sharing a campus.

I went to Cornell myself, and my daughter is there now. I thought that the decentralized structure of Cornell -- where each individual college pretty much does its own thing -- was typical of U.S. universities, but it is not. The university my son attended, and others that both of my kids considered, were much more unified.

cptofthehouse · 06-21-2009, 07:31 PM

I've yet to figure out Cornell. S applied to two colleges of Cornell and got into his second choice when his school counselors were very optimistic about his first choice and agreed that the second choice was a "hail Mary" attempt. The other kid in his class with very similar stats but higher grades did not make the Human Ecology bid. I understand that one problem with HE is that it is very intensely premed in its applicant pool which makes admissions competitiive whereas if there are other less intense fields in AS.