Changing the Mathematics curriculum

[Ray192]

You need calculus to properly teach probability and statistics anyways.

Math in HS has the job of practicing and improving the quantitative abilities of students. Non-calc statistics is just learning how to read data. From a usefulness standpoints, statistics is good, but from a teaching-problem-solving stand point, is horrible.

But if they add calc-based stat to the curriculum, I'm all for it.

[BP-TheGuy88]

there'd be no need for calc-based stats as that's just getting too advanced and deep when we're talking about creating a good foundation for something that can be used everyday by the average person. anything already with calculus is just not going to be very useful on a a daily basis. the goal is to keep things practical and useful. it'd be nice if a calc-based stats course was offered as a continuation to basic statistics, but it really shouldn't be the base class that a student first takes.

[Ray192]

But practicality is not the point of the math curriculum at all, ideally it's to develop quantitative thinking. If practicality is to emphasized, then add stat as a "critical skills/real life prep" course, not as the end of the math curriculum, because really, without calculus statistics is a joke class, and not much of a math class.

If one advocates building the math curriculum around stat just for the practicality of it, then we might also remove literature classes in favor of "business writing", and remove physics for "electronics repair" courses. I wouldn't mind attaching some "practical" classes to the classic curriculum, but structuring curriculum around what's practical and useful at the HS level seems a bit distasteful to me. I know I would've hated it.

[idad]

S2, a humanities/social science guy, took AP calc AB this past year, but decided against BC for the coming year. Instead he is taking AP statistics as a senior; a decision I wholeheartedly supported. S1 took AB/BC and Stat (proved most useful in college). There doesn't appear to be any reason why many students cannot do some of both.

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

without calculus statistics is a joke class, and not much of a math class.

Yeah, AP Stat is mainly a combination of how to use your calculator, a few formal rules that have a no use in real life, and a few general rules that may be useful for evaluating statistics quoted in the news/media.

I also learned how to set up a survey/study, though I don't really consider that math.

[idad]

S1's AP stat was quite good and comprehensive. All must not be taught in the same way.

[marite]

Lots of students do not take AP-Calc. S1 did not (and did fine in the college admissions sweepstakes). For his fourth year of math, he took a course called Discrete Math. I would have been happy for him to take AP-Stats. He took Stats in college, still without a calculus background. He struggled through it. I wish he could have taken a year to absorb the materials rather than a college semester.

[originaloog]

Ray192, remember it is hs statistics and probability that we are talking about here. And even at my alma mater Cornell the intro stats course does not require calc as a prereq for its intro statistics course.

And per my first post read the book Innumeracy and you will understand why even a cursory knowledge of statistics and probability can be of great importance in everyday life, unlike calc, linear algebra, discrete math, etc.

Also regarding your post about quantative reasoning statistics and probability fill that bill too according to Harvard U's academic catalogue.

[Keilexandra]

Like VP's D, I'm a humanities kid and will be taking BC next year--instead of Stat--because of the admissions effect. Stat is "easy" at my school, so it wouldn't reflect favorably in the counselor's eyes or adcoms' eyes. (I don't have room in my schedule to take both.)

[marite]

^^And after this, you probably won't ever use calculus ever again; but you will need a knowledge of stats and probability to make sense of the news throughout your life. I endorse Originaloog's recommendation of Innumeracy.

[vicariousparent]

^^ I suspect Keilexandra (who is at TASP right now) and my daughter (who will be at a top debate camp soon) will be able to make sense of the news throughout their lives. I suspect they have taught themselves and will teach themselves enough to get by.

My D will almost certainly take Stat in college and hopefully it will be taught at a higher level in college than in high school.

[marite]

This seems a very odd argument.

It's not the point of a curriculum to address the needs of TASP attendees or those who can learn on their own. My S learned Calc BC on his own. Does it mean that Calc BC should not be taught in high school?
There are plenty of profs who don't think that Calc BC is the equivalent of an intro Calc course in college and even demand that students who scored 5s on the exam take the intro Calc class anyway. Does this mean then that AP-Calc should not be taught because it's not rigorous enough by college standards? One can say the same of most AP courses, too.

[vicariousparent]

This seems a very odd argument.

That is because it isn't an argument at all

I am with you on the desirability of promoting statistics/probability in the H.S. curriculum. I loved the Arthur Benjamin video posted in the OP and made my D watch it and she loved it too and we agree with it.

But the stakes for next year are too high for her. She has decided she doesn't want to look like she is choosing to take what is perceived to be an "easy class" i.e, AP Stat. She has the same dilemma with some other APs. She would love to take AP Psych and AP Gov but those are considered easier classes than AP Physics and AP Euro History. She will compromise and probably take AP Physics and AP Gov. She is not motivated to take the 'easier' classes because they are easy, but because they are more interesting and relevant to her. No matter, her A's will look less shiny if they are in the easier classes than if they are in the harder classes.

Hopefully in college she will be free from this ridiculous need to prove to others that she can handle 'difficult' material.

[IloveLA]

You don't need statistics to understand the news. Just Latin. Cui bono.

[coolweather]

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