UCLA Chancellor discusses budget crisis, plans, priorities

[hmom5]

Lucy, most UCs already have sub 50% 4 year graduation rates, aid is already bad so they already lose top low income students to private colleges, they are all overcrowded, profs are leaving in large numbers--it's a mess. Hard to believe many would pay $45K plus...

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

Regarding the graduation in 4 year rate - it's anecdotal but I haven't heard of any issues with being able to graduate in 4 years or less (at UCSD, UCLA) by someone attempting to do so and this includes course-filled majors like engineering but also includes many other majors. I do know of a number of students who take less than a full load by choice who end up with a lot of free time but even most of those graduate in 4 years and would have graduated in 3 years if they took a full load. Some others take more than 4 years because of switching majors multiple times or later in the game, because of taking a difficult disparate minor to go along with a difficult major, because of too many drops/repeats in an attempt to preserve their GPA, etc. And I'm sure some take a smaller load because they have a time consuming job they must work as they go through college. In addition, some of the commuter students frequently take a less than full course load so they won't have to commute to campus every day (a lot of commuters do this).

So trying to compare the 4 year graduation rate at these schools with some other colleges needs to be taken in context. I don't think one can see the number and immediately conclude it's because the courses are so filled that many students can't get them such as has afflicted some colleges until limits are placed on admissions (I've heard it was an issue at SDSU in the past - I don't know about now).

The reason I'm bothering to state this is because I think students contemplating attending a UC should make sure they understand the actual facts whether those facts are aligned with the assumption that the 4 year grad rate is due to not being able to get classes or they're aligned with my anecdotal points.

[dstark]

hmom5, can you provide links to the "professors are leaving in large numbers"?

I'd like to read this.

Where are they going?

[bluebayou]

perhaps its time we change the bar for UC admissions. Instead of 12-14% of high schoolers statewide, we raise it to ~10%....goodbye Merced.

[mini]

"mini: you were the one that turned me onto the idea that $100k+ income...correlates with higher test scores. Thus, it IS logical to assume that the lower test scorers at Cal are also lower incomes.....:

So are you suggesting that higher income is an admissions tip? (I suspect that's closer to the truth, and is the way it works in our state, usually by virtue of higher income folks attending schools where they have course advantages.)

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

so 83% comes from private funding? or what?

The chart on page 3 indicates where funding comes from for UCLA -
http://www.apb.ucla.edu/BdgtAssmp/20...getRequest.pdf

[Inquiringmind2]

Just want to add that my daughter just finished her freshman year at UCLA. She has not had any problem getting the classes she wants. She has had at least 3 classes with less than 25 students. One being a seminar this past spring quarter with 20 students and they went on 3 field trips to the beach (studying the effects of pollution/run off on the ocean). Hardly overcrowded classrooms as far as her experience is concerned. She has a good friend who plans to graduate in 3 years and will still study abroad in France fall of 2010. As a previous poster stated, there are many reasons why someone might need more than 4 years to graduate and they are found at all types of schools. My older daughter is at a very good LAC with less than 2000 students and it will take her 4 1/2 years due to a change of major and a very light load for 2 semesters. Don't bash all large publics...their problems can be found anywhere.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

so 83% comes from private funding? or what?

For UCSD -

The charts on pages 3 and 4 indicate the funding sources for UCSD (14.6% comes from state for 2006/7) -
http://www-cbo.ucsd.edu/PDF/0607Camp...22-08final.pdf

The sources are:
- Teaching Hospitals - 28.1%
- Federal contracts/grants - 23.2%
- State government - 14.6%
- Private gifts/grants - 8.8%
- Edu activities sales/services - 8.8%
- Tuition/fees - 8.6%
- Aux sales/services - 5.2%
- Other sources - 2.4%
- Local government - 0.5%

[menloparkmom]

Umm, on the UCLA Revenues chart on page 4 is shows that 60% of revenues comes from STATE GENERAL FUNDS, in other words , money from taxpayers.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

^^ That chart is only indicating what comes from 'core funds' - not all sources so the 60% figure isn't an overall one - it's 60% of a subset - i.e. it's 60% of the 28% that comes from core funds or 16.8% of the total.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

Another novel reason that some go beyond 4 years that I've heard of - some students want to do a study abroad after they're essentially done with their graduation requirements so they don't declare themselves as graduating until they can get study-abroad in to be able to do the foreign travel/experience at student rates - even if it's their second study-abroad. They then declare themselves as graduating at the point they return but it seems that this would affect that 4 year graduation statistic, again, by choice of the student rather than inability to grad in 4 years due to the school.

[hmom5]

Dstark, here's just one article with the overview:

Public schools are being drained for the benefit of the ultra-elite, says Robert J. Birgeneau, chancellor of the University of California at Berkeley. "The further you project into the future, the more frightening it becomes."

The Dangerous Wealth of the Ivy League

My own info is anecdotal. This year I interviewed for teaching jobs at a few UCs and some privates in CA. USC and Stanford have both hired many top UC profs in the last few years. The morale is not good among UC proofs and few encouraged DH and me to consider work at a UC.

[TheDad]

MPM, you're misunderstanding what you're reading: the 60 percent of core funds from general state revenues is correct. But "core funds" comprise only 28 percent of budget expenditures. .60 x 28 = 15.6 percent, within range of rounding errors to 17 percent.

Distribution of state funds within UC is very uneven and, were some equality measures not implemented, affect some departments much more than others. E.g., English and Athletics would be decimated and more, the Medical, Business, and Engineering schools taking only minor dents.

Speaking only of UCLA, there is not as yet any significant outflow of senior faculty though perhaps for budgetary reasons it wouldn't be a bad idea to lose some who were thinking of retiring anyway.

The two biggest reasons I know of that UCLA loses faculty candidates is the cost of real estate and offers the candidates can't refuse from their current institutions. I know of exactly one faculty member who has departed due to funding concerns.

[dstark]

Ok hmom5, can't argue with anecdotal.

That link was dated Nov 2007.

From what I read now, most schools have frozen hiring.

Many top schools are operating at deficits now. I would really be surprised if there were a lot of profs switching schools. I guess the tippy-top ones are always in demand.

[mini]

"My own info is anecdotal. This year I interviewed for teaching jobs at a few UCs and some privates in CA. USC and Stanford have both hired many top UC profs in the last few years."

Since they've frozen hiring at many of the Ivies and Stanford, we might actually see the flow go the other way.