Under 3.6 (GPA) and Applying Top 20 Parents Thread - Page 2

mantori.suzuki · 08-19-2009, 03:46 PM

Thanks for the encouragement, PaperChasePop. My son's school sent three kids to Reno last year, so I've got my fingers crossed! ISEF is apparently more important than I realized before my son enrolled at this school. Some of the kids' projects just blow me away.

PaperChaserPop · 08-19-2009, 03:56 PM

hmom5 - "produced an extraordinary application"

Is your niece applying ED or EA? If so, this brings another dimension into this thread - is EA or ED a good option for our kids? I have often heard that only those kids with extremely high GPAs should apply ED.

mathmom · 08-19-2009, 04:03 PM

He's interested in history and/or international relations.

I think applying ED would help my son at any of his schools, but I don't think he loves one of them enough to do so. Unfortunately not too many EA schools on his list.

hmom5 · 08-19-2009, 04:25 PM

Niece is not applying ED/EA. She wants a great first term and is also working on stepping up an EC. She did the application this summer because she wanted to focus a lot of time on it and she was able to book time then with the counselor we wanted her to work with.

PaperChaserPop · 08-19-2009, 04:27 PM

mathmom - Your son should also look at JHU. It has a strong IR program, and is known to accept students with less than stellar GPAs.

PaperChaserPop · 08-19-2009, 04:44 PM

hmom5 - was this a paid private counselor?

Pizzagirl · 08-19-2009, 04:54 PM

Hi, I have two rising juniors. If their UW is in this neighborhood (3.6 ish) but weighted puts them over 4.0, are they "eligible" for this thread? They're taking a hard classload, but getting a mix of A's and B's. I'm personally not keen on them applying to the top 20 schools (except for the one where they are a double legacy) because I feel like it's setting them up for disappointment. Oh - not URM, not athletes, and their EC's are reasonably interesting but no captain / president / state / national awards for anything.

PaperChaserPop · 08-19-2009, 04:57 PM

Congratulations on "two rising juniors". Are they twins? Why do you feel "it's setting them up for disappointment" by encouraging them to apply to the top 20? How do they feel about it?

Pizzagirl · 08-19-2009, 05:13 PM

Yes, they are twins (b/g). I don't know, it just seems SUCH a crapshoot, and I admit I get very discouraged by reading about these perfect kids with perfect SAT's and perfect GPA's who start their own companies and win science awards and captain the football team to the winning champion and serve as president of the senior class and help little old ladies across the street, and they get rejected anyway.

They have up close and personal experience with the top 20 u where they are double legacy (as we still live in the general area). It's got probably a 20-25% acceptance rate (I don't know, I'd have to look it up, but in that vicinity). But they have no real "hooks." They're just generally smart but not genius kids, a little on the young side (to be honest), they are reasonably involved in activities and personal interests but they aren't the stars of the school ... they're just normal teenagers. So I keep trying to figure out how, as we start the process of actively visiting campuses, how they should yang where everyone else yings, kwim?

They don't know enough at this point to feel or not feel about it ... they're going to take their cues from me. Not from their friends. This is an area which is upper middle class, but the overwhelming number of kids either go to the local comm college to save money and then transfer, or go to one of our state schools (and we have a great state flagship). They aren't in the pod that other kids are, where all their friends are comparing elite schools to one another.

So ... on the uni side, I am just not sure I see the point of dragging them to visit (say) Harvard, Princeton, etc. I mean, what are they not going to like about those places? I'm more interested in the LAC side, both from a yang-instead-of-yin perspective, but also because I think one in particular would really spark to an LAC.

I want to let them lead it, so I was thinking of giving them an "assignment" of ... here is when we'll be taking tours this year. We'll hit upper New England, Boston, Phila, DC / MD / VA, and wherever they want in the Midwest (Minneapolis for Macalester, Iowa for Grinnell, that type of thing). Not one trip obviously - we're thinking multiple trips! So, given those places, here's a list of colleges in those places, here are the ones we (mom / dad) think might be particularly interesting / relevant ... you pick. At the same time, I want to be able to throw in a few "mom wants you to see this even if you don't think you're interested" - e.g., I want to throw in Bryn Mawr as an example of a girls school for D, even if she doesn't think she wants that. (We have relatives in Philly so it's comparatively easy to fit that in.) Does that make sense?

I do have some "prejudices" upfront. I don't see a lot in California that I think is worth seeing; I'm not interested in the UC's or USC (nothing against those schools, just not something I think is their style). I have a bit of a bias towards the Northeast just because I'd like to get them thinking outside the midwestern box.

PaperChaserPop · 08-19-2009, 05:41 PM

I applaud your approach of leading them to figuring out the college list for themselves. It is their future, they ought to have a deciding voice in it. On the other hand, we as parents ought to guide and inspire them toward the stars , kwim? For this reason, I started this thread. Do we really know they are going to be miserable in a top 20? I mean we all hope our "normal teenagers" will accomplish something extraordinary one day and be happy in the process. In fact, most of the kids think the same way. There is a desire to achieve in all of us. The good schools, in general, do have better faculty and resource to equip our kids, not to mention the powerful alumni networks. Yes, kids with incredible credentials get rejected in droves, but people apply anyway to keep their dreams alive. Parents should not have unrealistic expectations, and should let the kids know that rejections don't make them any less valuable than the kids who get in. Let's get back to the business of helping our kids get to the best school they can, shall we?

mathmom · 08-19-2009, 05:48 PM

I never think of JHU, I don't know why since I know it has other strengths besides science. My husband considered doing a post-doc there.

I have to say though, looking at our school's Naviance it looks extremely unlikely. The accepted kids have weighted GPAs five points higher than his AND higher SAT scores. There's one waitlisted student with similar stats and a bunch of rejections. No non-stellar GPAs from our school.

Pizzagirl I think the Claremont Colleges are worth looking at, and Caltech if you have a budding (and brilliant and nerdy) scientist. Otherwise, I don't think California is worth the trip, though I have to say, I loved, loved, loved my three years living in Pasadena.

hmom5 · 08-19-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

hmom5 - was this a paid private counselor?

Yes. There's a lively thread now going on concerning this topic. IMO, the situation here is a perfect one to have good help with, for these candidates an outstanding application is especially important.

Pizzagirl · 08-19-2009, 06:16 PM

thanks, paperchase.

Quote:

I applaud your approach of leading them to figuring out the college list for themselves. It is their future, they ought to have a deciding voice in it. On the other hand, we as parents ought to guide and inspire them toward the stars , kwim? For this reason, I started this thread. Do we really know they are going to be miserable in a top 20?

It's not that I think they'd be miserable in a top 20; and I am a top 20 grad myself. You don't need to sell me on those benefits! I am fully aware of the dream to go to top schools, because that was *my* dream -- not for prestige, but because I'm one of those who could just live and breathe academics all day long. However, I'm not sure they have my drive. I don't mean that badly and I'm not saying that they are slackers in the least, but I had an intensity about it that they don't have.

I am just uncertain about putting too much emphasis on look-how-wonderful-these-crapshoot-schools are, and how to balance shoot-for-the-stars with let's-find-a-great-place-that-you-have-a-reasonable-shot-of-getting-into. That's why I welcome this discussion.

There's also a part of me, though, that thinks that the adcoms at top 20 schools must also just be so darn tired of these Superkids that every nth kid, they just pick a bright, well rounded kid who has something different to offer, even if he hasn't won Intel / cured cancer / taken a bazillion AP's.

I mean, what do you do if just have a normal, bright kid? Who isn't self-studying classic Greek on the weekends, or taking ukelele lessons, but just kind of doing things that interest him or her at the level of a normal teenager?

midwesterner · 08-19-2009, 06:16 PM

Mathmom, my middle son's experience did not validate what PC Pop had to say. S2 was waitlisted at JHU for IR with top scores, GPA and EC's.

It's my third son who fits this thread. He had an IEP in grammar school and worked very hard to get rid of what he considered the "stigma" of the IEP. He went to HS with no accommodations. Had very erratic grades in freshman and sophomore years (3.0-3.2 if you count gym, and band!) then hit a 3.75 junior year. He now needs to apply EA/ED to at least three of his schools, which is going to be tough. His test scores are very solid, though. Wish him luck!

mathmom · 08-19-2009, 08:28 PM

Oh I do wish him luck. I've also got a kid who dropped the IEP (actually a 504) like a hot potato in high school. I'm lucky he adores multiple choice tests and he's a great kid. I think he'd thrive in a lot of places.