NY Times: Education Degrees

Nottingham · 08-19-2009, 06:38 PM

Being a non-education degree seeker and a volunteer at my local YMCA, I was speculating on getting certified as a teacher after undergrad, or maybe look into Teach for America. I did some googling (is that even a word?) and found this NY Times article. Interesting, nonetheless.

Do Teachers Need Education Degrees? - Room for Debate Blog - NYTimes.com

Quote:

In a Room for Debate forum in June on the value of liberal arts master’s degrees, one group of readers — teachers and education administrators — generally agreed a higher degree was well worth the investment. They pointed out that pay and promotion in public schools were tied to the accumulation of such credentials and credits, specifically from colleges of education.

Here's the link to various education debates (standardized testing, worth of master's degree, student debt et al.) presented by NY Times:

EDUCATION - Room for Debate Blog - NYTimes.com

TwistedxKiss · 08-20-2009, 12:14 AM

I think this is interesting as well. I am majoring in political science and planning to take the LSAT, but if it doesn't go well enough or if I change my mind I was planning on getting a teaching certificate instead and teaching high school-- that is something I could be equally as passionate about and possibly even moreso. I wonder how well that will work out for me. Had I majored in education I don't know how I'd have learned enough about my field to adequately teach it, much less be able to make it interesting to kids that age.

A friend of mine that has recently become a teacher (by route of a japanese language and culture undergraduate major) actually told me I was better off doing it this way because taking classes about classes is nowhere near as interesting as studying what I actually would want to teach.

NorthEastMom2 · 08-20-2009, 07:38 AM

My D is looking at education programs, and all of them so far require an actual subject matter degree, which is required in order to be "highly qualified" under NCLB. At many schools, getting an education degree is pretty tough, because you're automatically getting a double or even triple major. Also, if , for example, you're getting certifiefd to teach HS Chemistry, there is little or no overlap between the reqs for a Chemistry major and an Ed major.

The idea of a slack ed major where teachers learn how to teach but not what to teach is an old stereotype which is no longer valid, at least at the middle & high school level.

PayFor · 08-20-2009, 08:05 AM

^
Northeastmom2 --

Can you provide the names of some of the colleges where you’ve found they require subject matter degrees in addition to education degrees? I’m surprised to hear that this is becoming widespread.

garland · 08-20-2009, 08:34 AM

Without naming colleges, in NJ, having 30 credits in the subject you are going to teach is required. That's about a major. As NEM says, it's part of the NCLB "highly qualified" requirements, so I imagine all states require some version of this.

PayFor · 08-20-2009, 09:41 AM

garland -- 30 hours of credits in the subject matter may not necessarily be the same as having a major. Historically, many colleges have offered subject courses specifically for education majors that were different from those that students who were majoring in that subject were required to take. For example, there are/were many “math for teachers” courses that fulfilled the requirements for education majors but not for mathematics majors.

JHS · 08-20-2009, 10:13 AM

PayFor, state requirements vary, but in the post-NCLB world there are lots of incentives to require that post-primary teachers have majors in the area in which they teach, and the colleges that produce most of the public-system teachers are adjusting their practices accordingly (which probably includes loosening the requirements for an Education-and-Something double major).

Here is a link to the Pennsylvania rules: http://www.teaching.state.pa.us/teac...?a=15&Q=122251. While there are multiple ways to demonstrate competence in a subject matter area, it is pretty clear that the expectation is that within a few years prospective teachers coming out of college will have a substantive major.

mrsref · 08-20-2009, 10:25 AM

One of the career paths that D1 is considering is high school chemistry teacher. At her college (private in PA), to get a secondary ed. teaching certificate for chemistry she needs to major in chemistry, take about 30 credit hours in Education, and student-teach for one semester.

The chemistry major requirements are the same as any other chem major.

My D looks at it as "getting a teaching certificate in addition to the chemistry degree, so I have the option to be a teacher"...not "taking some chemistry courses so I can teach chemistry". The chemistry is the main focus.

JHS · 08-20-2009, 10:30 AM

Here's what it takes to get a degree in Seconday Education with Math Certification at a state college here that produces a lot of teachers:

2009 Catalog

garland · 08-20-2009, 10:36 AM

Payfor--a math teacher from the college I work at needs to take real math classes, not math for teachers.

When my H career switched, even as an MD, he needed to have his undergrad and medical school transcripts evaluated to see whether he was "qualified" to teach bio. (he was

). (he was not alternate route, he took the ed classes at a local college before he started teaching.)

In fact, even though he has an extensive chemistry and physics background, and has the thirty credits, the state decided that not enough were at what they considered advanced level (for instance, organic was a 200 level class when he took it) so he isn't "qualifed" to teach physical science at a college prep level. Which is kind of ridiculous (he knows eons more than half the teachers my kids had) but there you go. them's the rules.

grapejuice · 08-20-2009, 10:53 AM

Bates requires a subject major degree - Education is only a minor, though it is probably the toughest, most time consuming one, and is as close to a second major as you can get.

NorthEastMom2 · 08-20-2009, 11:02 AM

PayFor, I haven't been tracking the colleges exactly - my d is interested in elementary, which is different. But most colleges warn that the Ed majors should start planning first semester of freshman year, b/c it can be difficult to meet all of the reqs - including multiple field experiences & student teaching - within 4 years.

somebodynew · 08-20-2009, 11:41 AM

I know at the University of Maryland, all secondary education majors are required to double major in their content matter. It's why I decided to opt for a masters program instead of an undergrad degree in education.

Dogwood · 08-20-2009, 12:37 PM

YD graduated this spring from BC/Lynch School of Education with a degree in elementary education and she was required to have a second major. She could choose either an interdisciplinary degree, a subject discipline in Arts & Sciences or Human Development (which would be from Lynch).

janesmith · 08-20-2009, 02:38 PM

DD graduated from Wash U this spring with a Secondary Education and History double major. To be certified in Missouri as a HS social studies teacher she had to have a major in one of the subjects she was going to teach (history in her case) PLUS take a certain number of courses in the other social studies disciplines (political science, economics, anthropology). All her subject area courses were regular Wash U courses. For her student teaching she was assigned classes in both history and political science (American gov't).

Ironically, the commencement speaker at Wash U this year was the founder of Teach for America, who spent her entire 20 minutes lauding herself--and dumping on education degrees and praising her recruits for being "inexperienced" and "naive" and much better qualified to teach.