Bad News for those Students thinking Cal State System Schools were your Safeties

[itsv]

Northstarmom posted a good article a couple of days ago about how long it takes to graduate if you are in the California State University system. Well the news is worse in terms of evening trying to get into the school if your grades are 3.1 and below and even 3.4 in the case of SDSU. I posted this over in the admissions section but thought parents could use the info below to demonstrate to their children the importance of getting good grades. Many students in my son's school for various reasons don't have a 3.1 or higher but they could always count on the CSU schools as their safety school. With our horrible budget problems., that option is now closed to them.

This is what I posted in the other forum. Out here in California, it is simply one of the worse years to be applying to college. Practically every other week the regents/chancellors are raising fees and tightening admissions even further. There have been protests on the various campuses throughout the state. California parents such as ourselves have strongly been encouraging our children to apply outside of California. Yesterday we received the email listed below from our h.s. college counselor informing us of the latest admission changes for CSU schools:

"Hello Seniors and Parents,
As you know there has been a lot of media coverage about San Diego State and the CSU system admission policies this year. I have waited until now to contact you about this, as I needed to gather more information. I now have that data, and want to inform you of the following. SDSU and eleven other CSU campuses are considered impacted and therefore will be more difficult in terms of admissions. The others are Chico, San Francisco, San Jose, Northridge, Pomona, Fullerton, Long Beach, San Marcos, Fresno, and Sonoma. If any of these schools are on your list, I strongly recommend that you have a back up plan of an application to a CSU that is not impacted if your gpa is under 3.1 For SDSU, the restrictions will be even tighter, although there will still be some local preference given, but if students are under 3.3, it will be difficult. At SDSU, students must also select a major in order to be admitted. It has become even more important that students get their CSU applications in sooner rather than later, and that they have backups."

CSU schools have long been considered great schools for those students with GPAs 3.0 and below which I believe is 50% of my DS's class. Looking at last year's numbers for the 2009 class at my DS's school, 38 of the students (approximately 25% of the class) went to the impacted CSU schools. I am sure many of them were 3.1 and below. Here in CA, I believe these students are left with few options, They can try to get into small LACs but those bring high costs, they can try for out-of-state schools but those have high out of state tuition, or they can go to community college which really isn't an option. Community colleges are impacted worse that the CSU and they are turning students away and if you get accepted it takes more than 2 years to get an AA which further raises the costs.

I guess the lesson is try really hard to have good grades above 3.1 so that you have more options. I used to think education was possible for everyone but this makes me very sad for this years class of 2010. I hope this year's freshman and sophomores take note of this info. Circumstances for admissions can change during the course of high school as it clearly has for the class of 2010, do it's a good idea to advise your students not to be caught off-guard.

[mom2collegekids]

Yes, it is sad that the CSU system now has the admission standards that the UC's had a couple of decades ago. One of the purposes of the CSU system was to provide an education for B, B-, C+, and C student with average SAT scores. If you had such average stats, you would be admitted.

Now, a prospective CSU student has to have B+ grades and strong SAT to have a good feeling that he will be accepted.

I have no problem with the CSU system tightening its system IF it's purpose is to deny admittance to students who would likely flunk out within the first year. That would be a wise policy. But, to have a policy that virtually closes the door to most B- and C+ students is too much.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

For a long time a number of the UCs haven't been taking all UC qualified applicants but rather have generally been selecting the top applicants.

SDSU apparently is now no longer giving the boost to the 'in-service area' (an area fairly close geographically to SDSU) and will require that they meet the similar stats as those accepted from outside the service area.

Since SDSU is reducing the number of admitted students they'll find themselves with some empty dorm buildings, i.e. potentially non-revenue producing facilities, so they'll require all first time Freshmen students from outside the service area to stay in the dorms. This will be a cost impact to those commuter students who live just outside the service area and also for those who could live less expensively in an apartment. SDSU's service area doesn't cover all of San Diego County so many students in North County will find themselves outside of it. The reason for the service area not extending further north is because there's another CSU, CSU San Marcos, in North County.

SDSU will still accept all of the qualified TAG students, i.e. CC transfers, that maintain a minimum GPA of 2.4 or possibly higher if the major requires it, but they'll now require that the student complete 100% of the transfer work at the CC rather than only part of it.

I think SDSU has been the most popular CSU for applicants so they need to pay attention to admissions to control costs and the ability for students to get classes to address the time it takes to graduate. I hope the latter is addressed with some of the changes.

From SDSU's president:
Letter from President Weber | SDSU

Q&A on the new admissions changes:
Question and Answers | SDSU

[bluebayou]

I used to think education was possible for everyone

Education IS available for everyone who wants to do a LITTLE work in HS. Earning B's in College Prep courses just ain't that hard at the vast majority of California high schools. The simple fact is that at least half of matriculating Frosh require remediation in math and/or english -- at some CSU's it's 90%! The cost to the taxpayers is too high. This remediation is much more cost effective if performed at a juco. Yes community colleges are tight, but take that remediation money away from the Cal States and it will go a lot farther at a community college, where the per person costs are much lower.

IMO, all of the State's higher ed should increase minimal gpa requirements. If kids want to attend college, a C+ in high school should not be his/her goal.

[Northstarmom]

"I used to think education was possible for everyone"

Some kind of post high school education -- which virtually everyone now needs in order to earn enough money to support themselves -- is possible for virtually everyone. For many, that means community college or vocational training. This makes sense to me.

[itsv]

USD UCLA Dad, did you see the paper today? Local community colleges in the San Diego area are cutting one-fourth of its course selections next semester. At one school it means 429 course selections will not be offered. The state funds most colleges based on enrollment of full-time students. At this one college, the state will fund 15, 481 full-time students although more than 22,000 attend. Since not all can get a full-time load, there is no funding for the students that fall in the gap. The president of the CC said in the newspaper today, "There are more students that want to come here than the college has funding for..I wish money were not an issue....there is nothing more hurting than to say 'no' to students who want to get an education." For the class of 2010, community college is just not a realistic choice anymore.

BlueBayou, I agree, it seem with my DS he can easily get B's in his classes but he has to work really hard for an A. At his school which is a college prep, i very curious to see where is class is going to go to college since it seems half the kids I never see on the honor roll which is for students 3.2 and above. Maybe this is a wakeup call to them. My ds's school has tutoring, a special programs and very willing teachers wanting to help students so those below 3.2 really do have some help out there.

I'll be so glad when my ds is through this process.

[bluebayou]

itsv:

the community colleges in California (and perhaps elsewhere) have conflicting missions. On the one hand, they want to provide solid college-level courses to enable their students to easily transfer to a Cal State or UC. But, they also offer a LOT of remedial courses for kids who got never got thru HS, or are trying to upgrade/change their skill sets. In addition, the community colleges offer what I call social classes, i.e., they offer courses (for seniors) to meet on a weekly basis to discuss politics, foreign language, art, photography, etc. IMO, these should be the first cut, but unfortunately, they are also taught by tenured community college faculty.

[FindAPlace]

In addition, the community colleges offer what I call social classes, i.e., they offer courses (for seniors) to meet on a weekly basis to discuss politics, foreign language, art, photography, etc. IMO, these should be the first cut, but unfortunately, they are also taught by tenured community college faculty.

I'm confused. Why should the fact that these "social classes" are taught by tenured faculty have anything to do with whether they survive a budget cut? I'm with you, these should be the first ones considered for the chopping block. Tenured faculty are not tenured to teach specific classes, far from it. I believe my H (who works at USC) told me that math department faculty are to be prepared to teach ANY math class. True, senior faculty don't like to and often get out of teaching the intro courses, but they could be required to do so.

[cinniesmom]

There will still be room at the less popular CSUs for the 2.0 student but yes, the ones in the prime locales SD and LB for example will be tougher to get into. On the brighter side of that coin some of the smaller CSUs who have been hoping for an increase in enrollment, like CSU Channel Islands and Monterey, have had an infusion of higher stat students which is nice for the new campuses looking to build their academic reputations.

The key for CSU admittance is to get your apps in NOW before the end of the priority filing date on 11/30 and to commit once your decision has been made.

The reality though is that getting through in 4 years has become somewhat of an unrealized dream and though there is some free money out there depending on your admission profile you may not be eligible for any of it.

Anyone who is expecting to attend a CSU campus rather than a private should wait until all FA offers are in and then project that cost over 5 years for a CA public at this point just to make sure that that a private education is not a better deal. It was for both of mine.

[bluebayou]

I believe my H (who works at USC) told me that math department faculty are to be prepared to teach ANY math class.

Yes, but a tenured French professor can teach French - not math. And if the community class is French Conversation.....

[Shrinkrap]

"Earning B's in College Prep courses just ain't that hard at the vast majority of California high schools. "

But if I'm reading this right, JUST B's won't be good enough. My son essentially has ALL B's in his core classes. He is a junior, and working as hard as he's ever worked, but I am not counting on any A's, AP's or honors. Maybe one A, one C; no D's or F's. Doesn't that get him a 3.0, and NOT a 3.1? Don't you need at least one A to get above a 3.0? (Someone here says B+ and B- are all just B at CSU's). His PSAT's are relatively good, BTW.

[bluebayou]

Shrinkrap:

For UC admission, one needs a minimum of a 3.0 gpa coupled with 5 tests averaging 446+. So, no, your S does not need a 3.1, if his five test scores total 2230+.

Cal State will accept a 2.0 with SAT scores totaling 1300+ (ignores Writing), or 3.0 with no test scores (California residents).

From CSUMentor:

3.0 and above qualifies for any score.

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

In addition, the community colleges offer what I call social classes, i.e., they offer courses (for seniors) to meet on a weekly basis to discuss politics, foreign language, art, photography, etc. IMO, these should be the first cut, but unfortunately, they are also taught by tenured community college faculty.

So that my D could take more academic classes in HS (she took all APs) she took a PE type course at a CC to fulfill her HS's ridiculous PE requirements (with an extra semestaer over most HSs in the area which messes up an academic schedule). She took golf at the CC so I went ahead and took it with her (which was actually quite fun). It's surprising how many HS students use CCs as an alternative to taking some courses in HS that really s/b in the domain of the HS and it's also surprising how many people like me can use them for cheap golf lessons as well as other 'enrichment' courses that aren't geared towards prep for a 4 year college.

I think it's fine to have enrichment non-degree prep types of courses geared toward the general population but they really need to think through the mission, the funding, and the prioritization. In many cases they should just increase the fees to cover the costs. I would have paid the higher fees if necessary and if I couldn't have afforded it then I guess I just wouldn't learn to play golf there (but if I couldn't afford the class I certainly couldn't have afforded to play golf anyway).

itsv:
I didn't see the article today but will look for it. I know there's an impact on budgets at CCs and that more students are applying to them since they're less expensive than a UC/CSU and in some cases because they didn't make it into their desired UC/CSU and will use it as a means to transfer. Again, I think there should be more consideration to increasing the fees to attend the CCs (and CSUs) to reasonably cover costs without making fatal cuts. It may make some of the CC students a bit more serious about their studies and eliminate some of those who aren't who probably shouldn't be there anyway but are still taking up spots.

[mom2collegekids]

Are any of the Cal States actually accepting students with 2.0 GPAs (besides maybe an athlete)?

[mom2collegekids]

Maybe some of the better CC's need to become BA granting colleges to take some of the pressure of the Cal States? (kind of like Marymount College in PV that grants AAs and BAs)

They wouldn't offer a wide range of BAs, but maybe some liberal arts majors.

How hard would that be?

Are the CC budgets still somehow linked to the K-12 budget (or am I getting something confused)?