small LAC with strong science in New England

[marite]

And I think for many serious physics or math students a uni would be preferable because the presence of grad students ensures that there are many really upper level courses.

That was the reason S decided against Williams. However, his grad program includes 3 Carleton graduates, the largest numbers of students from a single undergrad institution. So, unless a student really needs to take grad courses while still in college, many LACs can prepare that student very well.
I agree about Wes. It has added top math faculty. But its claim to musical fame is in ethnomusicology rather than classical music. When S1 visited, having declared an interest in music, he was shown in a room with two music faculty, one of whom was a gamelan specialist.
Bard is tremendous in music (Leon Botstein being its president); I don't think it is in the same league as some other LACs in math and physics, however. At least, not yet.

[Weskid]

A note about Wes: While I agree that our academic strength is in ethnomusicology and Jazz, and that our classical offerings might not be as good as say, Williams or Oberlin, I think people are over-stressing the difference at Wes little. I have several very talented friends who are music majors with a preference for classical (at least one is hoping to go professional, studied abroad in an intense music program, etc) and they have always had ample opportunities to perform, train, etc. No complaints.

Basically, Wes is still a fine option for someone interested in classical music

[mythmom]

Yes, Marite. I'm sure that's true. But if merit money is needed I guess I thought it might be an acceptable compromise.

The top schools tend offer things that lower ones can't necessarily duplicate, although sometimes they can. I certainly don't want to ruffle any feathers. The state flagships can offer a lot, but they're not NE LAC's.

Another idea (not a NE LAC, either) is SUNY Stony Brook. An excellent math faculty and an awesome and very highly ranked music program. Proximity to Manhattan makes it attractive to professors of music wanting to maintain a performance career.

And it's very reasonably priced, even for out of state students.

The two brightest kids in S's year (not S) elected to go to Stony Brook and continue work in physics begun in HS (Intel or Siemens projects I think.)

Because there is some cooperation between Stony Brook and Brookhaven National Labs (a 40 minute trip and cross-pollination between the institutions, there are excellent opportunities for physicists students.

The math department left en masse at one point and started Renaissance, now the top grossing Hedge fund in the world. But they did hire another distinguished faculty.

[mythmom]

Weskid: I'm sure you're right, but the classical composition program was weak. S had many meetings there. And he found the practice rooms very discouraging because of moldy carpets.

[marite]

I was limiting myself to LACs. Another Midwestern LAC of which I have heard good things re: math/physics is Lawrence University. It is in fact a LAC with about 1400 students and has a conservatory.
Stony Brook has an excellent math & physics program and recently received a very large donation from Simons who founded Renaissance after teaching there for many years. A new building named after him is being completed. Its COA is very reasonable, even for OOS students, but it is not an attractive campus and is rather in the middle of nowhere.

[mythmom]

Gee, I don't agree with the unattractive or middle of nowhere, but I guess that's totally subjective.

I think Shirley Kenney, the last prez, has actually made it quite lovely.

And I live here and find plenty to do and don't feel isolated at all. And the station for the train into the city is right on campus.

It's not Cambridge, for sure, but there's more to do locally than in Williamstown. No skiing, true, but beach, cute town (Stony Brook, but upscale), funkier more college friendly town: Port Jefferson.

And Simons built Avalon Park to honor his son who died in a freak accident. It's got a wonderful maze at the top of trail.

There are two duck ponds very close by.

The ferry from PJ also takes one easily to NE.

But maybe I'm just a non-urban laid back kind of gal.

And this isn't a LAC either, but it does give merit money -- Brandeis.

[marite]

mythmom:

Sorry! This comes straight from the report by my very urban son!
Williamstown would not have been his cup of tea, either. It is even more isolated.

I thought of Brandeis, as well; but I have been wondering whether, in light of its financial difficulties, it will be able to maintain its financial aid program, including merit money. It does have a good math and physics program and good music facilities.

[johnwesley]

Gosh, there's nothing wrong with comparing Colgate with Williams, especially if Williams is already the OP's first choice. And, since when did Pomona, Amherst and Williams become the end-all-be-all of LACs?. There are plenty of otherwise reasonable people who cross them off their lists for various reasons, every year.

[mythmom]

johnwesley: I agree with you, and oldfort was being cute and celebrating the ole alma mater.

marite: No offense taken at all. First of all, different folks like different things. And I should be used to people calling Stony Brook ugly, though I really don't think so.
Third, I was born in the middle of Manhattan so living here is definitely a choice. And most important, your intentions were kind.

As you know, I have one kid at Williams who loves the nature scene and "lack of light pollution" (his words) and one who graduated from Barnard and languishes when she's away from NYC for too long. During her six months in London she referred to the city as "a lovely rural outpost" feeling that it was much less urban than New York.

Both really like it here, so it's a good compromise for us. I have no problem with your S's conclusions.

As for me, minus the sad subway beggars (I now it's the metro -- couldn't resist the illiterate) and ubiquitous dog poop and cigarette smoke, I just adore Paris. Urban but filled with light. And to me, sitting in cafes is the most civilized activity a person can do.

[jrpar]

Oldfort's post made this Williams alum smile - I've been told the same thing by someone very closely related to me.

[oldfort]

jrpar - We may have some competition in our household someday, both Colgate and Williams are on D2's long list right now (she is only in 10th grade).

[mythmom]

I tease my D that she chose Barnard so her brother couldn't follow. He fell in love with the school based on her experience and regretted it a bit, I think. He didn't apply to Columbia because he really wanted a LAC.

[achat]

I agree with Marite on Williams. It has a great Math department.Sciences are fantastic at Williams too. There are summer research opportunities at Williams that is quite good.

Mythmom, my son has this disdain for smaller cities too. He called Providence, RI, a "nice little rural outpost" as well when he visited Brown. I don't know how he'll cope now that he's applying to Brown for graduate studies 5 years later - somewhere where he could potentially live for 5-6 years. Or maybe when kids grow up a bit the urban/suburban preferences have less meaning than what is taught/researched somewhere.

[mythmom]

Well, hopefully they get more tolerant. BTW: D spent a summer at Brown and chose Barnard over Brown for that reason. But she was 17.

Now she's living in Atlanta (BF works at the CDC) and not a happy camper. She refuses to call it a city. According to her it's "a collection of suburban neighborhoods." She is applying to Emory for law school (as well as New York law schools) because there is one very important thing NY doesn't have: BF!

[pageturner]

Well, OP, to be more likely to get merit aid (particularly in the arts), consider Hobart and William Smith Colleges in Geneva, NY.