Elementary Education Major - What to Look for in a Program? - Page 3

EMM1 · 11-03-2009, 11:00 AM

"What should she be looking for and what questions should she be asking?"

One question overrides all others:

"What are your job placement statistics?"

emeraldkity4 · 11-03-2009, 11:22 AM

not a help with identifying colleges, but an editorial that brings up often overlooked points.
Teach Your Teachers Well

starbright · 11-03-2009, 12:23 PM

^I was just going to post that! Read it this morning and thought it was a brilliant article. Not a practical solution for the individual student I suppose, but a great read for those who care a lot about teacher education.

shyanne · 11-03-2009, 12:52 PM

Check out Michigan State University's College of Education. Creating great teachers is a big deal there, elementary and secondary.

zweebopp · 11-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Sorry, but I haven't been able to read this whole thread, so I don't know if these points have been mentioned.

1) There are no jobs for Elementary teachers! Sure, colleges provide the major, but the competition for any job, especially in a public school, is fierce. Unless you want to work in an urban area. Turn over is very telling.
2) Best jobs are available only through the student-internship. If you don't land anything after that, you'll be stuck substituting. Message: be picky about where you intern.
3) Best teachers aren't really taught. They have a loud (commanding voice) w/ a matching personality. Being attractive helps.
4) Best programs don't waste a lot of tie "teaching" teachers. They do that through practical experience. It helps though to watch "master" teachers. Learning Classroom management is the most important training you'd get.
5) many schools hire from certain 'feeder' schools. Even though my friends live in CT, all their teachers came from Columbia's "Teacher College" in NYC.

Go back to #1. There are no jobs. Lots of job fairs. No jobs.

mom2collegekids · 11-03-2009, 01:28 PM

My quote: >>>>>>>
Shouldn't someone who will become an elementary teacher be careful not to attend an expensive school that will require lots of loans?

I know very few new teachers who get paid enough to support themselves and make monthly payments for student loans. Just borrowing $10k per year ($40k total) will cause a $460 per month payment for ten long years - that's over $5500 of a teacher's salary each year for 10 years - yikes!

Isn't it better to try to find an affordable good school (unless parents can pay full-freight), then burden a new teacher with debt?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

youdon'tsay >>>>>>> I would agree. ^^^ In my mind, it just doesn't make sense to go into debt for a degree when you know that the starting (and ending) salary is so low, at least around here. Ds1 is considering secondary teaching, and this is a conversation we'll be having when it's time to pick a college. His safety is an in-state public, and if he is serious about teaching this is where I'll advise him to attend.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

abasket >>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, IMO, $40,000 in loans is pretty steep to begin with - no matter what major!

A teacher's salary is in line with many other professional majors and I personally feel that fit, program requirements/experiences should be as much in play as any other major. So I wouldn't "settle" for anything less than a great program - wherever it is.
<<<<<<<<<<

Actually, a beginning teacher's salary is typically low and stays "low" for several years. So, there would be a concern about the hardship of student loan repayment during those early years. Especially since an adult who is between the ages of 23 - 33 (often the 10 year pay back years), is trying to move on with their lives at that point...buy a home, marry, start a family, etc.

But, I agree that $40k in loans is steep to begin with, but you'd be surprised how many kids are taking out such loans (an much higher) in order to afford their educations - at private schools, as well as public schools (now that it costs about $25k per year for a kid to "go away" to a public school. Many kids don't think borrowing $10k per year is "too much." Many of such kids are lucky to get $10-15k from parents; they don't qualify for grants, so they have to borrow the balance.

For this reason I think it's best to find the best elem education program a person can find for the least about debt incurred.

Parent100 · 11-03-2009, 04:35 PM

I'm the original poster.

1. Yes, I agree with the advise to not take on student loan debt to be paid back on a teacher's salary. Cost is paramount in this process and my daughter knows that her choices will be limited to those schools that make her an affordable offer. For this reason she won't be applying to top-tier colleges but second-tier colleges that will find her stats appealing enough to offer her decent merit aid. Debt is out of the question.

2. I did NOT know, as zweebop writes, that "there are no jobs for elementary teachers." Can anyone else corroborate or disagree with this statement? I thought I had read more than once that huge numbers of teachers will be retiring in the coming years.

thumper1 · 11-03-2009, 04:50 PM

1) There are no jobs for Elementary teachers! Sure, colleges provide the major, but the competition for any job, especially in a public school, is fierce. Unless you want to work in an urban area. Turn over is very telling.

There are a LOT of teachers who are nearing retirement age, even at the elementary level. In fact, some folks are predicting a shortage of teachers overall in the next five years due to the large number of anticipated retirements. Also, if you're willing to "go where the jobs are" you will find a job.

2) Best jobs are available only through the student-internship. If you don't land anything after that, you'll be stuck substituting. Message: be picky about where you intern.

Some schools do NOT allow the students to CHOOSE where they do their intern (I assume you mean student teaching) work. And some school districts do NOT hire from the student teaching pool. I can count on one hand the number of student teachers our district has hired in the 29 years I've worked there...and MANY of them have been very talented teachers.

3) Best teachers aren't really taught. They have a loud (commanding voice) w/ a matching personality. Being attractive helps.

As a teacher, I am VERY offended by this comment. Anyone entering education should be as well. It doesn't take "being attractive" or having a "loud voice". It takes a lot of skill and knowledge, and management to become a good teacher. Most teachers learn a LOT about becoming a great teacher in school AND in their first jobs.

4) Best programs don't waste a lot of tie "teaching" teachers.
They do that through practical experience. It helps though to watch "master" teachers. Learning Classroom management is the most important training you'd get.

Agreed on this one. If you can't manage the classroom of kids, you are not going to be successful as a teacher.

5) many schools hire from certain 'feeder' schools. Even though my friends live in CT, all their teachers came from Columbia's "Teacher College" in NYC.

That's funny...I live in CT too and we have NO teachers on our staff from Teachers College Columbia. We have had extensive professional development in our district through Columbia. But we haven't hired ONE teacher from there. Maybe that only happens in other districts.

Having said that...Teachers College Columbia is an excellent program. I would recommend folks consider that for a masters degree.

shyanne · 11-03-2009, 05:00 PM

Why wouldn't schools hire from the student teacher pool?

kathiep · 11-03-2009, 05:28 PM

The teachers in our district are hired from all over the place. I had a neighbor who was in administration in our district and when I asked her what they looked for in a new applicant, she said grades, teaching experience, references and what they did in their spare time. Spare time meaning working as a camp counselor instead of working at Burger King or doing nothing.

It IS very, very difficult to get a job right now teaching but that doesn't mean it will be that way 6 years from now. My daughter has been able to find work since she graduated but she also has friends that are only able to substitute. One of them graduated from Columbia Teachers College and could not find a job anywhere in NYC due to a hiring freeze.

We have too many colleges in this area to hire from a "student teaching pool".

thumper1 · 11-03-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Why wouldn't schools hire from the student teacher pool?

Well...my district is in the position of hiring folks with actual experience teaching in their own classroom.

However, there are other districts around where folks hire new teachers as it's less expensive.

nysmile · 11-03-2009, 06:42 PM

Childhood Education Program at SUNY Plattsburgh - Certification Requirements

http://web.plattsburgh.edu/academics...ion/childhood/

Many of the SUNY schools were originally founded as Normal Schools or Teaching Schools.

You'll find a lot of info in the above links.

mom2collegekids · 11-03-2009, 06:46 PM

Parent...

Right now, hiring in certain states (Calif probably the worst case) is not happening for teachers.

However, by the time your D is credentialled (5 years from now), the whole problem will likely be turned around.

What are your D's stats? Perhaps we can steer her to some schools that will give her some merit money.

Treetopleaf · 11-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Regarding the 'no jobs' comment, if he/she was not picky as to where they worked, couldn't they find a job in a rural community, or are those jobs completely filled as well?

happymomof1 · 11-03-2009, 07:12 PM

Not necessarily hiring today, but definitely hiring in the spring, and continuing to hire into the future because the population in the area is growing: Montgomery County Public Schools, Rockville, Maryland Best chances of getting hired would be with dual certification El. Ed. plus Special Ed., El. Ed. plus TESOL, El. Ed. plus Reading, El. Ed. plus a subject area that will allow you to teach Middle School, El. Ed. plus Early Childhood that would allow you to teach pre-K students in Head Start, etc.