Overexaggerated Importance?

[kantianethicist]

My D looked at Wellesley a few years ago and we know a couple of young women there. You are applying ED there? They typically accept roughly 100 students ED.

It is a very selective applicant pool because, Wellesley, it seems, more than any other of the "sister" schools (which we also looked at) attracts a uniquely driven type of student. It is (and I am not stereotyping or knocking it) full of overscheduled type A's who are also into giving back. You will find many opportunities for internships, employment and volunteerism. It is a beautiful place with a tremendously supportive alumnae network and some wonderful and very accessible professors. Some people find it a bit isolating but there is definitely opportunity to get involved with students and organizations at other area schools--Olin, Babson, MIT and Harvard. It is a great school with much to offer, but the atmosphere is not for everyone. Not everyone ends up happily ever after there. I hope you have spent some time there since you are doing ED and are fully aware of the culture. My D liked Wellesley a lot --in spite of itself!

Even though your SAT scores are in the 600-700 range, that in and of itself will not put you in the auto-reject pile. It also will not put you at the top of the "you're in" pile. The truth is that no one can tell you what your chances are. And it's hard to guess without actually reading your app. My best guess is that with unremarkable test scores, essays and perceived "promise" will be emphasized. (By the way, another tidbit, Wellesley sometimes uses student readers in admissions.) So much of this process is subjective that I think a reader has to get a sense of who you are, like you, and feel that you will not just succeed there, but also bring something to the community before they put you in the admit pile. Maybe full pay is a plus in this economy--they've definitely streamlined the budget there--though they say they are still fully committed to need blind admissions.

I know Wellesley promotes women in the sciences (as do all the sister schools.) There is a great emphasis on research for science majors, and some pretty good facilities, too.

I do recall my D receiving a brochure from them where they published the average SAT scores of admitted students. This may have changed in the last couple of years but they were definitely in the high 600 range at that time. My D was surprised by that. I thought it might have to do with the fact that they have a fairly sizeable international population (10%) and also support lower income students (especially through QuestBridge) with need blind admissions.

As you say, you have applied now, so all you can do is wait a few weeks until they release decisions. I don't think it's hopeless; I'd say you have a fair shot--if not ED, then maybe RD? Good luck and don't give yourself an ulcer--there are many great schools out there and some will surely accept you.
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And, honestly, I don't know why people do these "chance me" threads...ask some questions, get some advice, but "chance me" is like asking for a tarot card reading!

[tjd]

The point is that SAT scores are not looked at in a vacuum. Calmom should probably get off her high horse, because in spite of her self-proclaimed grasp of statistics, she apparently doesn't understand the application of them very well either. Having a score that is in the range where 1 in 3 are admitted does not imply that an applicant has a 1 in 3 chance of admission, regardless of what we know about the rest of the application. This is because we simply don't know how much of the determination is given to the SAT score; how much is causation vs correlation. Think about it ... even if the SAT scores of applicants were kept hidden from the adcoms, there would still be some percentage of admits in each score range. But what would that imply about admission chances? Nothing.

What you probably can infer from SAT scores is that if you have a score that is below the median, you probably need to have some mitigating factor(s) to offset that difference, and that mitigating factor(s) can be any of many that the adcoms value. What you can't expect is to present yourself as "average" in all areas, with a below average SAT, and expect to have an "average" chance at admission.

[umcp11]

First of all: CC definitely slightly exaggerates the difficulty of getting into top tier schools. But that's just realism/slight pessimism, not absurdity.

Nobody can know your chances of getting into Wellesley based on that score alone. I agree with another poster who said it doesn't hurt you, but it doesn't help you either.

Your GPA and hopefully rigorous academic schedule will be a plus (APs, right?). Being interested in science is a plus. Are you very involved? Can you write killer essays? Can you make yourself stand out in other ways?

All of these things play a factor. I'm convinced SAT isn't make/break, but if you don't have that strength there, you need to have a strength somewhere else, of course .

[hawkette]

Part of the problem with interpreting standardized test ranges for highly selective universities is that, below a threshhold, the large majority of those students often have some type of hook. That threshhold level will differ according to college, but it's pretty clear that someone applying to a highly selective college with standardized test scores at the 25th percentile sure as heck better have a lot of other good stuff on their app.

[calmom]

Hmom, your source for the 40% figure is the same misguided "expert" who told me that my daughter was wasting her time to apply to Barnard because they "wouldn't even look" at anyone with her scores. It is a person with a vested financial interest in making the admission process seem more competitive than it really is.

Half of Wellesley's admitted class has score ranges in line with the OP's.

The "statistical chance" of admission for any given student to Wellesley is whatever Wellesley's admit rate is, which happens to be 36%. The ED admit rate for Wellesley is around 50%.

Obviously with more information in hand, an individual's chance of admission might be re-evaluated and some have slightly better chances of admission, some have slightly worse. But for any single factor, I do mean "slight". So if the rest of the OP's package is strong, then maybe she's got a 40% chance of admission on ED and someone with a similar profile but higher test scores has a 60% chance. But if I see that there's a 40% chance of rain when I go out.... I carry an umbrella. That's a big number.

What the score-obsessed crowd at CC does not account for is the fact that a significant percentage of applicants are rejected because they are not even in the running. We know, for example, that roughly 3800 students applied to Wellesley for the class of 2013 and submitted SAT scores; of that, almost 1,000 (25%) had SAT Critical Reading scores of 590 or below. But the acceptance rate for that group was roughly 10% -- and of 236 who applied with a score below 500, only 2 (1%) were accepted.

If you DROP those 590 & below scorers from the applicant pool, and just look at acceptance rates for students in the 600+ range, the overall admission rate jumps to 44%. (And that's RD -- who knows what happens if you drop low scorers out of the ED pool).

Bottom line: Wellesley's numbers are CLEAR that OP's scores are within the range for that school. Roughly half of Wellesley's admitted students come from students with similar scores or below.

We can't know a precise statistical number -- but if we are evaluating "chances" based on scores, then I'd have to put OP at 40%+ when I factor in the ED status. I'd have to know a lot more about her and Wellesley's institutional needs to say more than that. But to say that an ED student with her scores needs some sort of "hook" is simply wrong -- the numbers tell a different story.

[BunsenBurner]

In addition to SATI, Wellesley requires 2 SATII scores. Did you send them and how well did you do on them? It was not clear from your OP. According to the numbers posted on the Wellesley forum, Wellesley admits close to 50% of its ED applicants (many are deferred). Your SATs are just a fraction of the whole picture, since this is one of the colleges that pays very close attention to the other parts of the application (your GPA, ECs, your "Why Wellesley?" essay, etc.). If your application file paints a picture of you that adcoms like, your chances of getting in are not that slim - my unhooked, very average (by CC standards) young lady from overrepresented part of the US attends Wellesley.

[calmom]

Part of the problem with interpreting standardized test ranges for highly selective universities is that, below a threshhold, the large majority of those students often have some type of hook.

That threshold, at Wellesley, is a score level of around ~550 -- we know that from the numbers Wellesley has published, as it is the point when we start seeing a significant drop off in admissions rates. (Since we don't have the ability to look at all 3 scores, I'll weight it up slightly and guess that the threshold is around the 1800 mark -- but the point is that 1970 is well within range for Wellesley.)

I think the problem is that the common data set happens to adopt the metrics of looking at middle 50% score range, which leads people to focus on the 25th percentile as if it were a cutoff. (And some people compound that error by looking at the 75th percentile as if it were a cutoff). It doesn't work that way -- 25% is still a big chunk of the admissions pool. Statistically, you probably want to go down to -2 standard deviations to arrive at the level where scores are a deal breaker.

[ParentOfIvyHope]

Xani: Your 4 years of High School Record (Academic and Non Academic) will have more weight in to the admission than the SAT1 score. But even then SAT1 is important.
Your is on lower (25th percentile) side so your high school record has to be on the higher (75th percentile) side to be able to have a good shot.

[bovertine]

Not to break out Venn diagrams or anything like that, there is one thing I don't understand about this "hook" debate. Why does it seem like everyone assumes that every hooked candidate, or at least a large percentage of them, falls in the lower 25% of scores. For example, a legacy is a "hook" and I suspect that legacy candidates have at least, and probably more competitive stats than any other typical candidate.

So even if 40% are hooked, that doesn't necessarily mean they all occupy the lowest 40% stats, leaving only the upper 60% to the "unhooked."

[fireandrain]

I also wonder whether that 40% hook statistic (assuming it's accurate) applies to Wellesley. Does it recruit athletes the same way other schools do?

To the OP: The daughter of a good friend of mine got into Wellesley ED with SAT scores similar to yours -- she had no hooks at all.

[Yurtle]

Xani-

You don't have a technical typical hook, but people here seem to not know something. The fact that you've applied ED *AND* want to go into the Sciences says something. I took one science AP (Environmental) and they sent me an email straight away about my interest in science.

Take a look:

"Wellesley is widely recognized as one of the nation's best colleges. Our students enjoy some of the finest facilities and most generous funding available to science undergraduates anywhere.

With a student-faculty ratio of 8:1, Wellesley classes are small and are taught by professors who are accomplished and devoted scholars, teachers, and mentors to our students.

Students who pursue the sciences at Wellesley conduct research with faculty as early as their first year, often co-authoring the published results.

Students present work at national meetings and train on equipment comparable to that found in top research universities, including nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectrometers, a confocal microscope, high-power pulsed tunable lasers, and a gas chromatograph-mass spectrometer, to name a few. This equipment is wholly dedicated to undergraduate research.

Minority and first-generation students are invited to participate in a program sponsored by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. Students in this program enjoy one-on-one relationships with professors who mentor them through their first two years of college.

Wellesley maintains a long and storied history of educating women in the sciences. Our distinguished alumnae in the sciences include the first woman to earn a doctorate in mathematics at MIT, the first woman to receive the Draper Medal from the National Academy of Sciences, and the first woman to be named a full professor at Harvard Medical School. With superb graduate program acceptance and job placement rates, this impressive record of achievement continues today.

For an overview of the many reasons why Wellesley students excel in the sciences, math, and computer science, please visit our website: Admit: Science - 10 Reasons.

[student request for info here]

You are also welcome to write directly to our science faculty at thesciences@wellesley.edu.

Sincerely,

Nancy H. Kolodny ‘64
Professor of Chemistry and
the Nellie Zuckerman Cohen and Anne Cohen Heller Professor in the Health Sciences"

Try asking questions, show some interest? If you're a minority this will help even more. ^_^

I can't say you'll get in, but I can say you'll be glad you tried!

EDIT: This letter would have been great if it weren't for the fact that: 1.) I decided not to apply to Wellesley and 2.) I'm interested in the Humanities! XD

[kantianethicist]

Out of curiosity, I dug through the admissions material I saved from my D.

The brochure I have listed the Class of 2008's AVERAGE TEST SCORES as:

SAT VERBAL=698
SAT MATH=678
Also, ACT=29 and
TOEFL=629(paper)

I do think these may be slightly out of date, but not so much that it would create a huge disparity.

The brochure also says:

"At Wellesley, admission decisions are never based on a single factor. Academic achievement, motivation, and creativity are all important attributes for Wellesley candidates for admission."

"Among the factors used to evaluate your application when you apply: High school record, level of challenge of high school curriculum, extracurricular involvement, rank in class, letters of recommendation, essay, standardized tests, demonstrated leadership, special talent, interview."

In a letter from the Dean of Admission encouraging my D to attend, she listed the talents (of some of the admittees) as: "aerial dancer, a pilot, a volunteer firefighter, a ballerina, a belly dancer, a fly-fishing enthusiast, a Chinese brush painter, an organic farmer, an apprentice chef, an aspiring food critic, a Celtic fiddler, a documentary filmmaker, an EMT, and competitive athletes, including a curler, figure skaters, runners, rowers, golfers and fencers. " Adding that Wellesley women are "active in student government and community service, and truly exemplify Wellesley's mission to educate women who will make a difference in the world." And that volunteers have participated in "human rights organizations addressing issues from public health to child trafficking, launched nonprofit programs to donate books and medical supplies to communities in need around the world and closer to home." As well as conducting scientific research in "nanotechnology, molecular neurogenetics, geophysical sciences and cognitive psychology," ... "designing projects to study Parkinson's disease, hydraulic jump mechanics, the growth and development of the horseshoe crab, and the domestication of the huckleberry."

I think this shows that Wellesley is interested in a certain type of candidate and that test scores alone do not make the Wellesley woman.

[calmom]

Wellesley's median score range (based on mosts recent available statistics) is:


SAT Critical Reading: 640 - 740
SAT Math: 630 - 730
SAT Writing: 650 - 740

[Xani]

Wow, this has elicited an amazing response!
Thank you again to everyone who has contributed, I appreciate it!

While I am worrying a bit over college (who doesn't?), I think I can relax a bit now.

My main question was about the representation of SAT scores.
Most students who seek out the CC community are in the higher score range, and most suggestions on "Chance Me" threads for Top Unis/LACs ect. mention something about a 2100+ SAT.

From the replies I have received, I am assuming that the actual importance of the SAT varies depending on the school.

I'm assuming from the many replies that it is safe

[kantianethicist]

I looked at some of your posts on the other forums--I see that your SAT II scores are quite good for Bio & Lit and that you have a range of AP scores from 5 to 2. So, you are capable of scoring well on standardized tests, but unfortuantely you are not consistent.

Why do you think that is? Do you stress out too much sometimes?

That said, there is a Dec 5, 2009 SAT offered if you are really worried that you won't get in ED and want to improve your RD chances.