Overexaggerated Importance?

[Xani]

I am a Senior in HS, applying to a very selective college (Wellesley) and looking into other top schools.

One thing that is always mentioned in any "Chance" thread I make is my 1970 SAT I score. (CR-690 M-640 W-640)
Many tell me that without at least a 2000-2100 SAT, my chances are mute. My mother, on the other hand, believes that the importance of the SATs is being very overexaggerated and that I have nothing to worry about. (But she might be a bit biased. )

Seeing as this IS CC, things tend to be overemphasized, and a very disproportionate group of students are being reperesented.
Since joining the CC community, I am almost certain I have developed an ulcer from worrying.

As parents of college students/High School Hopefuls, what are your thoughts?
Exactally how important are the SAT's, and how horrible is a 1970 SAT really?


Thank you in advance for any input!

[Youdon'tsay]

cc can be ulcer-inducing, if you let it. Don't let it.

1970 is a good score, but if you look at the common data set for Wellesley (the last year I could find quickly was 2006-07) you'll see that a 1970 is at the 25%. Makes getting into Wellesley an uphill climb but not impossible. Good luck.

[Pizzagirl]

Look at the Common Data Set and bring data to the rescue! Google "Wellesley common data set" and you'll find it. It will show the distribution of SAT scores at different levels.

[mathmom]

Pet peeve. Mute means "silent". Moot means "subject to debate; arguable". It's subject to debate whether you'll get into Wellesley. People here often argue that the majority of the students with stats in the bottom quarter of the class are legacies and athletes or have other hooks. I've never seen any convincing evidence. Knowing nothing else about you, I'd say Wellesley is a reach, but by no means impossible.

[SmithieandProud]

It depends how much emphasis the school places on SAT scores. If Wellesley is anything like Smith, the answer is: not much. By far more important will be your transcript, and whether or not you've done well in the most rigorous curriculum available.

[qialah]

All I know is that there's the famous quote about SAT scores counting less than students think and more than colleges are willing to admit.

It is only one piece of your admissions package. Nobody can predict your chances based on SAT score alone. IMO, 1970 is a fine SAT score. That said, any school like Wellesley with a 35% overall acceptance rate is tough to get into for anybody.

The SAT breakdowns are on their website.

Statistics 2013

[calmom]

Xani, my daughter was accepted at Barnard with a lower SAT than yours; Barnard statistically accepts a smaller percentage of applicants than Wellesley. I'd note that my daughter opted to submit ACT's rather than SAT's, but her ACT wasn't much better. It was actually in the bottom quartile for students accepted that year.

I found a chart showing Wellesley acceptance rates in each score range here:
Test Info and Dates

Roughly 1/3 of applicants who apply with math & CR scores in your range get accepted -- you can do the numbers yourself. Also keep in mind that among the highest scoring applicants, the admission rate is about 65% at best.

In other words, if you had 790 on CR rather than 690, you'd have a 2:3 rather than 1:3 chance of being admitted -- (if scores were the only factor) - so in a sense your scores means that your chances of admission are roughly half the chances of a student with high-end scores.

Focus on your strengths in your application. Your test scores are not a strength, but they are not a weakness either -- based on the charts at the Wellesley site, I think that the point where chances start to really fall off are at about 550. So you should look it this way: the scores don't help, but they don't hurt either. If Wellesley wants you based on other stuff in your application package, no one is going to say - "these scores are too low" -- but you DO have to give them some other good reasons to select you. That could be GPA, that could be some specific talent or achievement, or factors about your interests and personality reflected in your essays and letters of recommendation.

I would also suggest that you apply before January 1 under the early evaluation plan. See:
Decision Plans
If you do that, they will give you a letter at the end of February telling you whether admission is likely, possible, or unlikely. Obviously "unlikely" would be a bad thing -- but it can't hurt to know that a month early. Also, I think the early evaluation plan is a way to signal to Wellesley that they are one of your top choices.


Good luck. Your mom is right - the scores don't matter nearly as much as people who post on chances threads at CC think. It always amazes me that people who score well on the SAT math have such difficulty understanding basic concepts of statistics and probability-- they don't seem to understand that 50% of the students admitted have scores below the median.

[starbright]

Not to derail this thread (apologies to the OP!), but mathmom got me curious. Apparently the meaning of MOOT is moot

mootness n.
Usage Note: The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate. But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean "of no significance or relevance." Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value. A number of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent of the Usage Panel accepts it in the sentence The nominee himself chastised the White House for failing to do more to support him, but his concerns became moot when a number of Republicans announced that they, too, would oppose the nomination. When using moot one should be sure that the context makes clear which sense is meant.

To the OP: All the students aiming at a dream school have something to worry about. That is, you, like them, have a chance, and that is all you can count on for now. So you give it your best shot and then put it out of your mind and see how the chips fall. Good luck to you and I hope you get in!

[fauve]

starbright and mathmom- Glad you took the time to discuss "moot", the OP's misuse was glaring. Perhaps the lesson will help someone capture a few extra SAT vocab points someday!

[hmom5]

It depends how much emphasis the school places on SAT scores. If Wellesley is anything like Smith, the answer is: not much.

A schools 25-75% range will give you lots of info on how important scores are. Clearly they are fairly important at Wellesley.

When looking at the range, it's important to consider that about 40% of the class have hooks. So if you're in the bottom third on any key stat without a hook, any way you slice it, chances are not good.

There are many instances like that of Calmom's DD who beat the odds. But they are the EXCEPTIONS.

So the factual answer to the OP's question is that with her present scores unless she has a hook or strong tip factor she can't count on a decent chance at Wellesley.

[calmom]

When looking at the range, it's important to consider that about 40% of the class have hooks.

And your evidence for that is what?

So if you're in the bottom third on any key stat without a hook, any way you slice it, chances are not good.

This is an example of the inability to understand basic concepts of probability and statistics that I referenced in my above post. No matter what metric you look at, one-third of the admitted class is in the "bottom third".

I noticed something else about Wellesley stats: if you look at admitted vs. enrolled students, Wellesley's yield is roughly 1/3 for students with SATs above 750, but closer to 1/2 for students in lower score ranges. I would assume that the ad com at Wellesley is very much aware that the top end scorers are significantly less likely to enroll than the students in in the 600-650 range. This factor would be irrelevant in the ED pool, but tend to reduce the attractiveness of high-end scorers in the RD pool, especially if Wellesley does not offer any sort of merit aid.

So if you're in the bottom third on any key stat without a hook, any way you slice it, chances are not good.

Again, without knowing anything else about the application package, the OP's chances are roughly 1 out of 3. Wellesley overall has a 35% admit rate -- students in her CR score range are admitted at a 34% rate.

So obviously the statement about needing a "hook" is ill-founded.

I would note that in 2005 I was advised by a well-known admissions counselor (informally, via this board & email), that my daughter should "not bother" applying to Barnard because they "wouldn't even look" at a student with a score below 1400. I knew that the admissions counselor who gave that "advice" was dead wrong, because if that were true, then the median score range at Barnard and similar schools would have been tilted much higher. Obviously the colleges do accept a significant percentage of students with weaker scores, including the one-fourth of all applicants who, like my daughter, have test scores in the bottom quartile.

[Xani]

Thank you so much, everyone.
Also, I apologize for my slip in vocabulary... it obviously hit a couple nerves.

I have applied ED, and I'm not exactly sure I have a "hook". The most I could say is that I am a female interested in pursuing the sciences. In every other academic area I have achieved I have performed fairly well. (Top 6% of my class, 3.8 GPA)

calmom- Thank you for telling me about your daughter, it relieves at least a bit of my worry.

[mathmom]

Some of those 40% of kids who have hooks are stellar candidates. My older son for example was no doubt helped by his legacy status at Harvard, but none of his stats were in the bottom 25% of the class.

[calmom]

You don't need a "hook", Xani.... you need a profile that the school likes.

By that I mean that the application needs to have the sort of information that might make you stand out in an interesting kind of way from the applicant pool -- or make it clear that you are a good fit for what Wellesley needs and wants among its students. It's hard to know what that might be -- but that's why I said it is important to focus on strengths.

I'd note that colleges look at scores "in context". One reason that I don't think my daughter's scores kept her out of top colleges is that her scores are NOT weak when compared against her high school's overall profile. The admissions committee wants to see diversity in their class, including geographic diversity, and they do not expect to see the same scores from an applicant from a public school in Georgia as they might from an applicant from a private prep school in Connecticut.

That's one reason that the "advice" on CC is so skewed. This board is dominated by competitive high achievers who place a high value on the test scores -- they compare notes with others and whenever someone with weaker scores doesn't get into their top choice college they assume (without evidence) that it must be the test score, and whenever someone with weaker scores does get accepted, they rationalize (again without evidence) that it must be due to a "hook" or "affirmative action".

Keep in mind that ED potentially gives you a 2nd chance. You might be accepted (yippee!) - but you could also be deferred. (My daughter was deferred EA from Chicago -- I thought she would be disappointed at the time, but she actually was overjoyed that she hadn't been rejected).

If you are deferred, then you probably have an opportunity to submit supplemental material. That, in combination with strong first semester grades, may be what is needed to put you over the top. (That's what happened with my daughter's Chicago app.) Certainly you have let Wellesley know that it is your first choice school.

[hmom5]

When looking at the range, it's important to consider that about 40% of the class have hooks.
And your evidence for that is what?

I learned about the hooked during my years working in college admissions, but since that was in the dark ages, here's a current expert on the subject:

“40 percent of every Ivy League school is filled up with special cases: athletes, minorities, low-income, legacies or development cases. They’re tagged, and schools lower the admissions standards a lot for those kids.--Michele Hernandez

Dirty Secrets of College Admissions - The Daily Beast

Again, without knowing anything else about the application package, the OP's chances are roughly 1 out of 3. Wellesley overall has a 35% admit rate -- students in her CR score range are admitted at a 34% rate.

Without a hook, and applying ED is not one, this would not be her correct statistical chance. It also wouldn't be with a hook for that matter!