Fifty-two Schools top 50K tuition mark.

[elizabethh]

We are paying full-freight at a private school that is in the $50,000 range, thanks to generous grandparents. Yes, its a lot of money, and sometimes we wish our D had picked her other top choice, a public that would have been $30,000 less. But the access to tutors, advisors, deans, internship opportunities, special guest lecturers in her major, the knowledge that she won't have to worry about getting her classes each semester (as opposed to here at publics in California), plus the absolute perfect fit of the school for her make it worthwhile. However, had she needed to take out loans to attend this school, I would have felt much differently, and encouraged her to look more closely at other choices. Without the full pay students, others who need scholarships and loans might have a harder time, which kind of makes us feel better about things...

And regarding Berkeley, in my opinion it is absolutely crazy to pay that as an OOS student, given the budget cuts and lack of class availability that plagues that and other UCs. Yes its a fantastic school, but if you can pay that much, you're better off finding a private that you like. And if you can get into Berkeley, you can get into tons of great privates.

[bluebayou]

And don't forget, its not the $50k sticker, but the marginal cost over the instate public. A UC at instate prices is ~$26/yr. Yes, attendance at a private is 2 times that, but the economic decision is whether the smaller classes, better advising, dorms, class availability, etc., are worth an extra $25k per year, i.e., marginal cost.

Moreover, this marginal cost differential affects FEW families -- only those full payors in the top ~5% income brackets. With need-based aid, for most people, it can be less expensive to send your kid to HYP (or other great finaid school) than it is to send him/her to the instate public. (Definitely true in California since the UCs continue to raise prices.) In essence, 95% of families will pay less than full price.

[NewHope33]

"The biggest expense at universities is salaries."

It's a big part for sure. Still, Sarah Lawrence has 200 full time faculty for it's 1,700 students: (1,700 / 200) X $55,000 = $467,500 student-body revenue contribution per faculty member.

[NewHope33]

taxguy - This is off-topic, but ....

I'm looking for a two-bedroom condo in the DC area. It's got to be on the Metro line, and I've got $125,000 to spend. Any suggestions?

[Dean J]

I'm looking for a two-bedroom condo in the DC area. It's got to be on the Metro line, and I've got $125,000 to spend. Any suggestions?

You could live in the Spite House in Old Town Alexandria. I think it last sold for $130K. It's only 7 feet wide, though.

[jym626]

I think all schools should charge an application fee, and it should be in the $50-70 range. If a student wants it waived or reduced, they should have to provide some "mini fafsa" or something that really justifies the reduced fee. My s's school (one whose tuition plus fees is in that outrageous category, but fortunately he has a scholarship) anyway, they offer a no fee online application. If they had charged, say $60 for all applications, they'd have over $2.5M extra to spend. That could go a long way to reducing enrolled students fees!

[skrlvr]

Do you get lab access, supplies, and safety training with the cost of that tutor? Do you get studio access and supplies (if you're in the arts/architecture)? Do you get research opportunities? Does your tutor come with a career center? An academic advisor? How about a medical center, or a counseling center? Do you get audiovisual equipment? Is your tutor qualified to teach the cutting-edge, highly-specialized classes in an academic field? Does that computer that you buy every year come with expensive licenses for important design/science/engineering software (e.g. Matlab, SolidWorks)? Does it come with a printer and ~infinite paper/ink supplies? Does your housing come with a cleaning service? Do you get access to dozens of competitive and non-competitive sports and hundreds of funded clubs of all sorts with that health club?

To add to your list--do you get a library--which includes the cost of new books, journal subscriptions, subscriptions to databases, several librarians, the support personnel for the library (circulation), the maintenance of the library etc.?

There are all sorts of services that universities provide in addition to what is mentioned above: disability support services, study abroad services, writing centers, math centers, someone to coordinate internship opportunities etc.

I'm sure there's more to add here.

[momofthreeboys]

jym, it's changing rapidly. S1 had only one school that waived an app fee three years ago, S2 just finished his and only one school actually charged an app fee. He's also being hounded via e-mail and phone by schools that he has decided he will not apply to. He's told them, but the mail, e-mails and phones keep ringing and coming. Why they would expend the energy and manpower to keep after kids that have already said no they are not going to complete an app is crazy to me. Fish where the fishing is good for goodness sake. It's a wacky system and not sustainable as a business model over the long term in my opinion. It will be interesting to watch #3 go through the "system" in 3 years and see what happens.

[dbwes]

Reinstating fees would also help stem the craziness of kids applying to so many schools, but I'm not sure that's what the schools want.

[NJSue]

#14: the biggest single expense of any enterprise is likely to be salaries, but faculty salary is not driving college costs up. Yes, you can hire a Ph.D even part time for less than 50K. I see it happen all the time. Adjunct faculty teach two courses per semester (half a full-time person's course load) for 4-6K per semester (depending on discipline). Of course, they're not being paid to do scholarship, student advising, course development, or university service, but still...universities rely very heavily on adjunct faculty to keep costs down.

A more relevant factor is an explosion in university administrator positions, support service personnel, and facilities expansion in the last 30 years. When I was in college (cue the cranky oldster tone), we didn't have a huge psych counseling service, or tutoring services for every area, or giant student life programs. The dorms were spartan and the food was bad. That was what college meant (and I went to a prestigious LAC that is now in the top 5 of the USNWR national rankings). Now, colleges must be like resorts with all sorts of supports and amenities. We expect colleges to do more. In addition, the easy availability of credit and the extreme class anxiety of the American middle class (of which I am a proud member) have combined to permit colleges to get away with charging increasingly ridiculous fees.

[momofthreeboys]

I agree I don't see the "faculty" as accounting for the inflation other than the fact that even the smallest schools have an amazing variety of majors compared to a few decades ago. I do see, after going through this with two. unbelievable athletic facilities, unbelievable unions, amazing dorms at many but not all campuses. The economy has probably tanked alot of the rennovation/expansion plans temporarily. This will be a watershed year as I'm assuming many middle class families will take a very hard look at the cost/value equation regarding college education.

[taxguy]

newhope33 asks,taxguy - This is off-topic, but ....

I'm looking for a two-bedroom condo in the DC area. It's got to be on the Metro line, and I've got $125,000 to spend. Any suggestions?"

Response: I don't think you will like the type of condo that you would get and wouldn't like the area that it is in. A decent condo in a good area near a metro would probably be at least $175,000- $200K. If I were you, I would contact some realtors.

[qialah]

Salaries includes more than just faculty salaries, and salaries are more than just wages--also benefits like healthcare and pensions, both of which have risen much faster than the salaries themselves.

From the Harvard Annual Report: "Operating expenses totaled $3.8 billion, an 8% increase over fiscal 2008. Salaries, wages and benefits represented 49% of the University’s total operating expenses in fiscal 2009 and increased by 11% to $1.8 billion."

Yes, you can hire a Ph.D even part time for less than 50K. I see it happen all the time. Adjunct faculty teach two courses per semester (half a full-time person's course load) for 4-6K per semester (depending on discipline).

The claim was not 1 PhD but 5.

[NJSue]

^^^Sorry, my misreading. Just as a thought experiment, though, a college administrator can (depending on discipline) hire 5 PhDs as adjuncts fall and spring semester, each teaching 2 courses per semester (20 courses total fall and spring) at 2500K per course, for 50K a year. No benefits, no pensions. Assuming that each class contains 20 students, that administrator has just funded 400 student seats that year for 50K. That is exactly how freshman comp programs are staffed all over the place, even at selective institutions.

I'm not advocating the use of adjuncts as a cost saving measure. Overreliance on adjuncts is a national scandal. I also understand that the cost of benefits for employees has increased tremendously across the board not just in academe but in all industries. However, I do not believe that the 50K p.a. fees that some colleges charge can be justified by pointing to increases in labor costs alone. For one thing, the overproduction of PhDs has fostered very stiff competition for faculty jobs, which should keep salaries lower than they otherwise might be. For another, we have the huge pool of adjunct labor.

[DadofB&G]

My kid's school beats the drum about how the actual cost of educating one student is more than $80,000; so even if you pay full freight, you're only paying 60% or so of the true cost. The school uses its endowment to make up the rest.

I assume this true for many schools.