Best "Value" Colleges - Do you agree?

[mom2sons]

I thought CC parents might enjoy browsing Kiplinger's "Best Value" College lists. The rankings might spur some discussion.

Kiplinger.com

All of the data is available from the College Board site (and common datasets), but it's compiled in an interesting way here.

What do you all think of the methodology? I don't know that I would define "value" in quite the same way. And, I find it somewhat ironic that the best "values" happen to be some of the most expensive schools.

[calmom]

I think that's a bunch of hype and tells you absolutely nothing about "value". They crunch numbers to get the average COA after financial aid -- but that's meaningless unless you happen to be the beneficiary of an average or above-average grant for the school. (And the magazine authors are certainly divorced from reality when it comes to understanding need-based aid)

Those numbers might be useful to get a sense of the college's overall student body. For example, I see that Amherst has the lowest average cost after need-based aid for LAC's (around $14K). The full-pay COA at Amherst is closer to $50K -- so what that means is that a very high percentage of Amherst students who qualify for need-based aid have very low EFCs. On the other end of the scale, Bucknell students typically pay $30K after need based aid -- so we can assume that on the whole, Bucknell has a richer student body.

But lets look at Knox. The average COA after financial aid for Knox college is more than $21K -- so you would conclude from the Kiplinger ranking that Amherst is a better value than Knox. But if you are the parent of student who does not qualify for need based aid.... that is, a full payer -- you would pay $40K for your kid to attend Knox, $10K less per year. But there's more: according to the chart, a whopping 79% of all Knox students receive non-need based aid (merit aid) -- and the average COA for students after such aid is $30K. (In other words, Knox gives away $10K scholarships like candy).

So what's the "best value"? I'm leaving aside the obvious fact that Amherst is a more selective, better ranked college than Knox -- but Knox is a pretty good school, and the fact that it is not as selective increases your kid's chances of getting merit aid. (Not to mention that your kid is a lot more likely to actually get into Knox than Amherst -- I'm speaking hypothetically, of course -- if we are going to look at costs and measure averages, then we need to also postulate some everykid who is a high achieving, good student, but not a superstar).

Now, obviously if you have an EFC of $8K and you've just been accepted to both Amherst and Knox, its likely that you have a better financial aid package from Amherst (although if you are smart enough to get into Amherst, Knox might be throwing some extra merit money your way as well).

But a "best value" list isn't for students who have already been accepted to colleges and have their financial aid packages in front of them-- its for people who are doing comparison shopping before they figure out where to apply -- and for those students, such a list is highly misleading.

The "best value" in a college is where (a) the college offers your kid what your kid needs & wants, (b) you get the best price depending on your financial situation, and (c) your kid is highly likely to get admitted. (You can still apply to reach schools that give good aid, but that's a lottery ticket, not value shopping )

So basically... the Kissinger list is useless. It sells magazines, and helps convince upper middle class parents to let their kids apply to pricey private schools-- even though an article about how to estimate your EFC would be a lot more helpful.

[beth's mom]

As a parent of children who will not qualify for financial aid and are unlikely to get merit aid at most schools, I find those ratings to be absolutely worthless. How much aid a school gives does not enter into the value equation at all for my family.

[calmom]

Beth, you might be surprised on the "merit" aid part -- if none of the schools on the Kiplinger list is likely to offer merit aid to your kids... there still may be other schools that will. But you do have to do your research on that.

Keep in fact that although it is designated a "scholarship" or "merit" award, the real reason that colleges offer merit aid is enrollment management -- they need to fill each freshman class the same way an airline needs to fill seats on a plane. That means that they are better off filling some slots with students attending at a discount than have those slots empty. Even a very small award can be an enticement, simply because of the psychological, ego value. (Kid feels good because Nowhere University likes him so much they will give him $5000 in scholarship money to attend, parents feel good because they can tell all their friends that kid chose Nowhere U. because he received a generous scholarship there.). So while it is important not to allow yourself fall victim to what is in essence a marketing tactic, you CAN find a better value college for your kid if you look at the practices of various colleges as to merit money.

[noimagination]

Kiplinger's Best Value Colleges - Are these statistics accurate?

I believe we eventually concluded that these rankings are rubbish.

[IBclass06]

Originally Posted by noimagination

I believe we eventually concluded that these rankings are rubbish.

My S/D is attending at ____% of the cost.

We also concluded that parents on CC are far wealthier than average, and financial aid is less applicable.

Originally Posted by calmom

So basically... the Kissinger list is useless. It sells magazines, and helps convince upper middle class parents to let their kids apply to pricey private schools

The upper middle class kids have access to decent counselors who actually know what they're doing.

Lower class kids often rule out the elites entirely under the mistaken impression that they would never be able to afford them. If lists like these help encourage those students to apply, I'm all for it.

[mom2sons]

Thanks for the links to the older posts. It's interesting to read about the choices parents make regarding schools and aid. I actually find it sad that many lower class kids (and lower middle class) don't have ready access to good college information.

What bothered me about the Kiplinger list was the definition of value - it seemed to be all about prestige and selectivity vs. COA, and nothing about what happens on campus and outcomes. Obviously, if you get a bunch of smart kids together on a campus, a certain educational culture exists. But, as a parent, I believe I'm investing in a lot more than prestige.

[momofthreeboys]

There is no one perfect source of information. If you have the time it's best to read and look at everything you can. Every "list" has it's own methodology and every book has it's angle. If you can sort out all the hype you'll find what you need eventually. For the schools that I could find the info, I preferred the Common Data Set to any other "reported statistics" via magazines, guidebooks, etc.

[calmom]

The upper middle class kids have access to decent counselors who actually know what they're doing.

I disagree-- my impression is that the private counselors who cater to upper income families have a very weak understanding about financial aid. They tend to be more focused on the process of getting the kids into the most selective colleges -- the ones that tend to offer little or no merit money -- than in exploring options where merit money or other funds are likely to be offered.

It seems to me that most parents going through the process the first time have very little understanding about how financial aid works, especially the distinction between need-based aid and merit aid. If CC posters are representative, then we see again and again newbie parents coming who are definitely working under false assumptions. The most common false assumptions seem to be upper income parents who believe they are "middle class" and will qualify for some financial aid (the $150K earners who are shocked at their EFC's) -- and parents who mistakenly believe that they can get scholarship money from elite colleges.

Lower class kids often rule out the elites entirely under the mistaken impression that they would never be able to afford them. If lists like these help encourage those students to apply, I'm all for it.

I doubt that any of those kids read Kiplinger -- and the information on the list isn't really all that helpful. How does it help a low-income kid with 0 EFC to see a list that reports the cost for Harvard AFTER need-based aid to be $12,834 ? That information tells the uninformed kid to forget it - that Harvard is way too expensive. Of course, the truth is that if that kid can get into Harvard, their cost will be more like -0- -- but the chart conceals that information. (The more useful information for the low-income student at a 100% need school is the average debt figure, because that keys into the way financial aid is packaged -- it is obvious to my knowing eyes that if the figures on the chart are accurate, then Princeton gives better aid packages (fewer loans, average debt under $6K) than the other elites - but an inexperienced reader is going to see the $17,704 cost after need-based-aid number and figure that Princeton will cost more.

So if anything this list DETERS low-income students from applying to the colleges where their need will be fully met by the manner that the information is presented.

[spdf]

Lists like this are okay for getting a general idea of what's out there, but the problem is that they create expectations when the reality for any individual kid can be completely different. Does a list like this, for most kids and parents, create a false expectation? I dunno.