Your child could be arrested at college! Life ruined. - Page 2

lderochi · 07-22-2005, 07:43 AM

cgm, just to nitpick not noting sources isn't copyright infringement. Using copyrighted material without permission (of in a manner that falls within one of the categories of permitted use) is infringement whether the source is cited or note.

theotherside · 07-23-2005, 11:59 AM

okay, first off, this student's life is not RUINED. However, we all have to be responsible for our actions. Bittorrent is typically used on by students on campuses to download illegal copies of music, television and movies -if they were using this program on a library computer, the chances are good that they specifically went to the college library to do this because you need a very fat internet connection to download large files, fast, something they may not have at home. It is highly unlikely that anybody would access and use a program like bittorrent 'accidently'. This is exactly the behavior that triggered all those 'pirating movies is wrong' ads in movie theaters.

Also, you use someone else's computer, you play by their rules. If he was arrested for downloading porn onto the library computers, would you be okay with that? How about if he was using software that left that libary terminal riddled with computer viruses that ruined the work of the next student?

Nobody has the 'right' to commit a crime using university property, and nobody has the 'right' to use university property in ways that that university's policies deem to be unacceptable. And this was a 'recent graduate' so they had to know the computing policies.

Campus bandwidth is a limited resource, something many users do not seem to understand, and wasting it to steal movies and music means that other legitmate projects don't get the bandwidth they need. If your student couldn't get a fast enough internet connection to complete a paper because other students were hogging the bandwidth to nab internet copies of the new Willie Wonka movie, wouldn't you be angry?

concernedparent · 07-25-2005, 03:46 PM

Well, this students' aspirations are high, he and his family are devout christians, etc. He feels his life is over.
In the seventies, the Universities turned thier heads and ignored pot smoking; now they are turning in kazza users. RIT turned in a bunch of students recently (ok, i will look for the source).
Now, it is simple to see if an applicant has even been arrested. So this is a huge strike against him. All of his hard work and money for nothing. Now, I know the typical american response is

"Well, thats what he gets. Another one bites the dust. He should not be clicking on those Skype and Messenger and Bitorrent options. Let him rot in jail and dig ditches. People are disposable. "

But, if someone does not want another person to use their bandwidth in that way, block the ports all over campus. You have to build a fence around your pool, dont you? What if you had 2 pools and you built a fence around one and not the other. And then said "well, the kid drowned because he wandered in and he diserves it." Its even easier to block bittorrent ports. But colleges want to entice students to apply and pay tuition by being free and open, and then nail them when they are tempted to use the program. I think the loaded gun analogy applies. They probably treated him differently because he had separated from the university and was no longer paying tuition. But they seem to have the option to nail anyone...

The thing is, using the computers the way he did is not absolutely obviously wrong. It is allowed, perhaps with certian constraints. But step a half a toe over the line, and boom. No warning. (Do you read every letter of your credit card agreement or software install agreements? Or do you just click accept?)

UMDAD · 07-25-2005, 03:57 PM

"But, if someone does not want another person to use their bandwidth in that way, block the ports all over campus. You have to build a fence around your pool, don't you?"

Let me pose a question - When the speed limit sign on the freeway reads 65 MPH do you go 10 over? Sure, everyone does.
Do you go 100? No. Why not? It's unsafe, you are sure to get caught, etc. A long, straight and empty section of highway is very enticing to test out that speedometer in your car and see if it really will do 140 as the speedometer reads. But you don't.

Just because we might be able to do certain things is no reason in and of itself to do them.

concernedparent · 07-25-2005, 04:11 PM

It is clear that there is no perfect analogy here.
Going 100 is obivously dangerous. An infant would be afraid. An dog in the car would be afraid. The file transfering issue is much more of a grey issue. Cable and DSL allow its use, but people downloading over a random and often moving threshold are just nailed. They are'nt notified that they are approaching a problem. Can you look at you computer monitor and see that?

hazmat · 07-25-2005, 04:15 PM

So......do these ruin a student's life? Does your student not read any newspaper and thus hasn't followed the downloading problem.....the suit against many students at many schools??? Or there is the sexual involvement with a younger partner.....statutory. Does registering for that crime ruin student's life? Ignorance is not an excuse.

bluebayou · 07-25-2005, 04:42 PM

concernedparent:

I concur that this should just be a wrist slap.

But, unfortunately, they are being threatened with major legal action and penalties by Hollywood and the rest of the industry. Colleges just can't afford to let such stuff happen.

Just last week, a colleague's cousin (age 17) was sued in federal court for a violation of such laws. "Cuz" claimed she only downloaded ~20 songs....perhaps. Nevertheless, the plaintiff is seeking damages of $30,000.

calmom · 07-25-2005, 05:37 PM

Wow, concernedparent, your post just blows me away: "devout christian" now is put forth as an excuse for evading the normal & usual consequences of computer theft. That one really takes the cake.

Even a 9 year old knows that (a) downloading of copyrighted files is illegal, and (b) that there are terms of use to be adhered to when using school or library computers. I say that because the whole issue of downloading/copyright has been extremely widely publicized, and my kids have been required to sign computer use agreements for their respective schools for as long as the schools have had internet enabled computers.

If this kid's "life is over" because he got caught doing something he knew he wasn't supposed to be doing.... well, all I have to say is that if he is that upset about it, I guess his life as a computer file thief is over. The real world consequences will be minimal, but if he's learned a lesson that real world rules apply to him, no matter what his professed religiion, then I'd say it's a good thing that he got caught.

As far as the "devout christian" thing goes: I'd suggest he pick up his Bible & look up the 8th commandment.

concernedparent · 07-27-2005, 01:29 PM

What words in my post suggested that being a christian was an excuse? Typical American. Looking to accuse. I simply point out that he came from a nice backgound, and maybe did not realize what he was doing.
The point is, be very careful. Small mistakes like this were forgiven in the past. The current culture here is hypervigilant and a bit draconian.

BTW, speaking of forgiven, what were the last words of Jesus (before "God, why have you forsaken me?") His last action was to forgive the sins of a thief crucified next to Him.

Perhaps you are more focused on the fire and brimstone parts of the bible.

emeraldkity4 · 07-27-2005, 01:37 PM

I didn't see concerned parent using Christian as an excuse for behavior but neither do I see why religion is relevant-religion does not indicate "nice" background and the lack of religion doesn't indicate the opposite

It is mandatory however to be familar with the rules of your school because they vary. Read all that stuff they give you, attend orientation meetings they are there for a purpose.

mini · 07-27-2005, 01:50 PM

So the kid's life is going to be ruined when he is sentenced to do 50 hours of community service (instead of watching movies?)

Maybe he can do them at his church!

hazmat · 07-27-2005, 01:55 PM

Faith based community service....watching Christian movies at church....that is just soooooo bushwacked. Maybe this kid went wrong when he was exposed to diversity at this university, you know meeting folks who aren't devote christians.

calmom · 07-27-2005, 02:32 PM

Concernedparent, you seem to suggest that the kid's "devout Christian" background is a reason that he should be above the law -- I'm not sure of the rationale: because an arrest is somehow more devasting for him? or because he is somehow more naive and should be excused from being aware of the laws? or because he is somehow more virtuous and deserving of tolerance and mercy?

This isn't a case calling for "forgiveness" -- there is no suggestion whatsoever that the consequence of his arrest will be in any way disproportionate to the offense. This kid is subject to the same rules and consequences as anyone else.

15mbw · 07-27-2005, 02:38 PM

I just did a quick search of the web adn found similiar posting on three other websites, with almost the same wording...they like I smell a hoax ---

what are the sources for the original story--my bet is the original story is bogus ...even if concerned parent isnt?

hazmat · 07-27-2005, 02:45 PM

Naw....they're not bogus but they know what happens to devout when they enter the world at large.....consequences for actions which apparently in the world of forgiveness comes as a shock.