Financial vs Admissions Safety/Match/Reach

Lukester · 07-22-2005, 09:52 AM

What are your thougths? Do you build your Safety/Match/Reach list on your ability to be admitted, your ability to afford it, or both? Our DS has built his Safety/Match/Reach list more on his ability to be "Academically Admitted" to the various schools, than our ability to pay. Our EFC should be around 30K. We have adamantly drawn the line with him that our financial contribution will be 15K (about the cost of our state universities) and no more. DS has A- type stats, very good, but realistically (unless he went ED) not HYPS. His current list has several schools that, from an admissions perspective are good Safety/Match/Reach, but financially are not. Of course, we are pushing the schools that are more likely to award merit aid. He seems to be getting the message and looking at more realistic options. Only two schools (USC and Clemson) his two safeties fit both requirements for Admissions and our Financial ability to pay. If we assume worst case, very little or no merit aid, then the Match/Reach and especially the Reach list becomes very, very short. The big mystery is what merit aid will he really be offered? Should he even list any schools at all on the Reach list that are need based only if we can't afford to pay for it? A waste of time? I am curious to hear your thoughts and opinions about this.

sybbie719 · 07-22-2005, 10:07 AM

If your EFC is 30k and you have already discussed that 15k is your out of pocket limit then it would not be financially feasible for son to apply ED to a school that only gives need based aid with a 40K+ price tag, because he will not be able to attend.

HY are both SCEA, so should they are non-bining. The upside is he still gets to compare offers. The downside is should he get accepted, you have already stated that it is not a financial option for your family.

If you are standing by this rule,his applying and getting accepted to reach schools that may have been his dream school will cause nothing but hurt feelings and a lot of disappointment should he be accepted and has to turn in down because you can't/won't pay. If his reach also puts him in line to get big merit aid or possibly a full ride then he definitely needs to toss his hat in the ring.

The mantra on the parents forum has been love thy safety. If he will be happy attending USC or Clemson, and you have already stated they are financially feasible, given the parameters you have set, he can and should definitely look at schools that are a match/reach and where he would be in line to get some good merit aid . This coupled with the 15,000 that you are willing to pay could leave him with wery little or no debt upon graduation.

Lukester · 07-22-2005, 10:54 AM

Thanks Sybbie! Good words. We have consistently beat the drum about not applying ED to anywhere in order to be able to compare financial offers. DS admits that while Clemson is not his dream school, he would be happy there. It is a good school and getting more and more difficult to get into. We are trying to get him to use Clemson as his baseline comparison school when looking at others. We think he is finally getting the message. Now if we can only get him to start work on his essay!

thumper1 · 07-22-2005, 11:10 AM

This is a tough situation. If you truly are going to pay $15,000 per year, in my opinion your child should be looking at schools where the total cost is THAT plus whatever he earns and any loans...so schools in the $20,000 range (assuming a Stafford loan and summer work). The reality is that merit aid is not a guarantee at most schools. What will happen if your child gets accepted at LAC #1 with a merit packages that is good (say $15,000 per year) but with a cost of attendance in excess of $35000 per year? This is a possible scenerio. Your $15000 plus the school's $15000 would still leave your son with an additional $5000 per year...and that would be for the first year only. Costs go up....merit aid tends to be fixed numbers. What will happen the second or third year when the costs go up 5%? Are you willing to contribute 5% more or will your child be asked to transfer? It sounds to me like you would prefer your child to go to an instate public college, and that is fine. We found that the SC public colleges are near the top of our DD's college list (and we are out of state), with U of South Carolina and College of Charleston being on her short list. PLEASE don't let your child be one of those kids who falls in love with a school hoping to get merit aid...and then doesn't. Year after year on this forum there are many many kids who have this heartbreak. While I'm sure it all works out in the end, it is not pleasant during the process.

emeraldkity4 · 07-22-2005, 11:21 AM

sybbie & thumper have given you solid advice

WHen we looked at schools we knew our EFC was 15-14 K so that was what we expected to pay period. We paid it with a combination of loans, savings and my daughters summer earnings.
To gather a college list we compiled several instate schools- which were basically $15K to attend including expenses and room and board which meant she wouldn't be eligible for any need based aid.
She also applied at an out of state public school which was about $5,000-$10,000 more, but they had merit aid ( which the instate schools had little to offer), and an out of state private school.
Because we were going to be paying bascially our entire EFC and because the private school met 100% of need, it was the best choice in our situation we decided.
However, had she not been admitted she would have been happy with any of her other schools- I would say her list was 4 safeties and a reach.

SBmom · 07-22-2005, 01:05 PM

IMO it is a mistake to apply to a school that would be a financial impossibility.

A kid can take the fact that you let him/her apply as a signal you'd reconsider and actually cough up more if the admission offer came through. If this is not so, be very clear about that now.

There are merit aid schools and less expensive schools out there that would be affordable on your $15K, your kid's summer & workstudy earnings, and a modest amount of loans in the kids name.

Lukester · 07-22-2005, 01:26 PM

This entire college search process has been a wild ride for us so far. We have no idea what lies at the end, but are very excited about it. It will be fun to see where DS gets accepted, the financial packages offered and where he will ultimately attend. Fortunately, DS has not fallen in love with any one school with the idea that merit aid will come to his rescue. It almost happened after visiting Duke. The car ride home was the frank and honest discussion about financial realities. It wasn't pretty. I remember all too well the heartbreaking posts here on CC last spring as many students were shocked with the realities of not attending their dream schools. My and my wife's favorite school so far has been Furman, which could be doable if the merit aid is right. DS liked it, but not as much as us. Furman also has several 1/2, 3/4 and full scholarships. Thumper, you are right about being cautious with fixed merit aid awards. We like the 1/2, 3/4 type scholarships because if tuition goes up it doesn't matter as much as a fixed merit aid amount. My wife and I really have no preference toward the public state schools. Clemson has already sent DS a "Provisional Letter of Acceptance" based on his SAT scores. With the state lottery monies, I don't see how any school will be able to match Clemson or USC financially. My personal preferences were toward any of the military academies or ROTC. I went to the AF Academy and finished my AF career teaching ROTC at Charleston Southern University, so I have a bias in that area. Both the Academies and ROTC are a superb way to get a great education and get it cheaply. A ROTC scholarship would put Duke and some of his other Reach schools within reach. However, DS has made it clear that Academies and ROTC are not in his future. That is fine with us. You have to WANT to go to an academy or ROTC, so those options have been crossed off the list.
thumper-For what it is worth, I'll give you my impressions of USC and CofC since your DS is interested. USC (espcially the honors program) is considered the more rigorous. Campus is spread out more amongst the city of Columbia. It doesn't have quite the isolated campus feel of many colleges. Excellent International Business program. Our DS went to Boys State at USC. We were not impressed with the dorms there at all. CofC has limited dorms of any kind. USC is much larger than CofC. When I taught ROTC, approx 1/4 of my cadets were from CofC. I was impressed. My opinion is that the CofC campus is more liberal than Charleston Southern Univ where I taught and where the ROTC unit was located. However, I also thought that the academics were more rigorous at CofC than CSU. CofC has a great connection with the Medical University of South Carolina and would be a consideration if your DS is interested in that direction. You can't beat Charleston for a location.
Emeraldcity-I think as the dust settles some and the picture clears a bit, we too will end up with a few safeties and only one or two reaches.

thumper1 · 07-22-2005, 01:47 PM

Lukester...please remember that college housing costs increase annually as well. We have neighbors who have two youngsters who are living OFF campus at Clemson and they tell us it is actually more expensive than the campus housing because it requires a 12 month lease.

Thank you for your insights on the SC schools. We visited them all, and DD liked them very much. She actually prefers U of SC because of the limited instrumental music opportunities C of C offers non-majors (actually they offer NO instrumental music ops for non-majors). She is not interested in medical school so that is not an issue. She liked the campus at USC very very much. Re: dorms...we are northerners...and the dorms at USC were terrific compared to what we have for underclass students in these parts. AND I don't know when the last time you were at C of C was, but all of their dorms except one are suite style and were the best we saw anywhere. They do guarantee housing for four years, but that is because many upperclassmen live off campus. They have renovated every dorm there in the recent past (except one of the freshman girls honors dorms).

northeastmom · 07-22-2005, 02:06 PM

Thumper you are so right about housing costs. There is a school that has been courting my son, sending more mail from alumni than any other. They send information on how much merit scholarship $ is available with a certain gpa and sat score. What they leave out is the fact after freshman year most students are off campus because they do not have enough housing, and university is apparently restricted from building more. This means a car, and setting up house, and rent. On campus housing is a must for us, at least for 2 years, and hopefully 3. In my mind, going for the generous scholarship offer up front will end up costing me much more in the years to come. In order to get my son to go to that school they would have to buy a couple of the apartment rentals for students instead of offering the merit aid.

sybbie719 · 07-22-2005, 02:16 PM

I think he is talking about University of South Carolina as an in-state student and not USC in CA.

thumper1 · 07-22-2005, 02:41 PM

Hi Sybbie, If the "usc" info is to me...the folks in South Carolina refer to U of South Carolina as USC.

A note about housing too....a lot depends on the costs of housing where the student attends school. For us, housing guarantee for FOUR years was an absolute because of the very expensive housing market in Boston. Even so...housing costs off campus (even in less expensive locations) include 12 months (vs the 8 months students are actually IN school), utilities, insurance (your homeowners will NOT cover student's belongings in off campus housing...they need their own renters insurance), sometimes a car and associated expenses, furniture, dishes and other household items. AND I've heard some rather awful stories about roommates not paying bills, or dropping out of school and leaving the others high and dry, or roommates who didn't pay their share of the bill, or AWFUL subletters in the summers. Living off campus can be wonderful, don't get me wrong, but don't assume the costs are less.

Lukester · 07-22-2005, 02:48 PM

Yes, here is South Carolina, USC refers to the University of South Carolina "Gamecocks." Although I have lived in Charleston for over 15 years, I grew up in Southern California and to me the one and only true USC are the "Trojans." I am sure there are lots of other USCs out there! On the housing note, a neighbor of mine's son had the long drawn argument with his parents trying to convince them to let him move off campus into an apartment with roomies, how it would actually save money in the long run, etc, etc, etc. Parents didn't buy it, he's staying on campus.

jmmom · 07-22-2005, 03:14 PM

Just a note on merit aid ( and here's hoping your S gets a nice bunch of it). When evaluating the offers, make sure to consider what is required to maintain the aid. S has a very good award from Tulane and I like that it requires a 2.7GPA to renew. We do expect S to far exceed that, but you never know, esp. in Engineering. I have heard of awards requiring 3.5 (and higher?) GPA to renew and that can be highly unrealistic, I'm told. May not seem so to we who have had hs kids always at the top of the heap, but college grading/adjustment issues/etc. can be something else again.

zagat · 07-22-2005, 03:53 PM

I have never come across anyone who got more aid than their EFC implied at a school that only gives need based aid. When you start out knowing that you can meet only half the EFC, it seems silly to allow your son to apply to schools you have told him you can't afford. Just to see if he can get in? It will just make for a more painful April. One option, if you have good credit, is to let your son assume loans for anything above what you've told him you will contribute. Not something I think is a good idea, but there has to be a plan if he's applying to schools you can't fund.

ariesathena · 07-22-2005, 04:11 PM

Safeties, IMO, should fit several criteria:

*guarantee (or near-guarantee) of admission
*a school at which the student can be very happy
*a school which has student's desired major
*financially affordable

If it isn't all of the above, it ain't a safety, because the kid isn't going there.

Some very well-endowed schools can be quite generous with aid, so reaches & matches can be done without regards to paying (if you have enough energy to fill out those apps). If you can't afford the safety, however, how is the kid going to attend? He may as well not have been admitted at all.

Finally, how feasible is it for him to be an RA? If he can do that for three years, he can reduce his housing costs to almost nothing - some schools give out a stipend which equals room & board.