Colleges for the Jewish "B" student

[rossnrachel]

Hi Parents of Jewish B Students - I am new here. I have been reading this for awhile, and I am getting stressed so I thought I would ask for opinions! From what I have read you people seem to help one another very much. I have a S who is a Junior. He is an A- average (this year) B average sophomore year. But his small private school does not rank, djoes not give GPA and does not offer honors or AP courses! So when I read about the rigorous courseloads at other schools, I don't know how my S's application can compare. Students from his school seem to be accepted to many highly competitive schools (not Ivy), but I am wondering how his grades are compared? He took the ACT and got 28 and he's taking it again this month. We have started a preliminary list of schools to consider, but still very unsure: U Miami, Maryland, Tulane, Colorado, possible reach: GW. I know this list is incomplete.

How do colleges compare students from schools that don't offer Honors and APs with students from school that do?Our school has naviance but it is not very populated due to small size (and need to protect anonymity).
Thanks for any input.

[socaldad42]

My observational experience is that students are not punished if a school does not offer AP's. I am surprised that his school does not offer any of those choices. Is it a unique private school? Does the school have a reputation with certain colleges that know how to evaluate the circumstances of lack of ranking, GPA, and honors? I would suggest having a conversation with your college guidance at school and get their perspective on how colleges approach their students. Do the guidance people at your school advocate for their students and give adcom's a perspective?
28 is a good start on the SAT. You might go up...also, try the ACT.

I think you should develop your prospects with some easier schools. Miami is harder than GW. Tulane has gotten tough. Maryland for OOS is very competitive. You might look at Wisconsin, iU, Delaware, Syracuse, as a bit easier than those you list. Of course, lots can change between now and the fall with scores and grades.

[spectrum2]

I remember the line among the most competitive schools was that they look for students taking the most rigorous course load the school offers. Even in these schools if AP's aren't offered the schools say they aren't penalized. I expect they might look a little more closely at the standardized test scores as an indicator for college readiness. Socal flipped it but 28 is a good ACT score and he still has time to improve. He might try the SAT.

[socaldad42]

Correct Spectrum. I said it wrong. Thanks for fixing my mistake...

Word from the Lone Star? which way is the wind blowing, A&M or UT?

[bookworm]

Ross-racheal, what's state is your DS in? he needs several state schoold as options. Are
You looking for a lot of FA? Schools ask if the student took the most advanced classes offered. Some students read and study on their own. Need more info to be of help.

[college4three]

jaynebe: welcome. I think your D will have many options. 3.7 & and top 10% with honors and Ap makes her a very strong candidate at JMU, PSU, Pitt and Syracuse. Also, UMass Amherst, if she's interested.

rossnrachel: you definitely need to have a conversation with the guidance counselor to address how they put their students in context. I am sure that, at a minimum, they include a profile which indicates that there are no honors/Ap in the curriculum. Miami, Tulane and GW may be out of reach. What part of the country do you hail from? also, welcome.

[spectrum2]

Ha Socal, the wind is blowing toward College Station this week. Its hard to say if it will shift west to the capital again or remain steady.

[rossnrachel]

Hi and thank you. We are from CT. I have spoken with the guidance counselor, and I intend to speak with her again regarding whether she advocates for her students - thanks for the advice socaldad. And yes, bookworm, we will add state schools (thinking UConn, SUNY - not sure which, UMass, UNH). No, we don't need FA. Thanks for replies!

[lisztserve]

Rossnrachel - coming from a small HS, sounds like you've decided to focus on larger universities. But if not, LACs and smaller Us may not go by the numbers as much. The gpa thing can be hard to figure out. My son attended 2 different HSs with 2 different grading systems, neither one on the 4.0 scale, neither one weighted, and performance all over the map. We used Naviance, talked to other parents, but ultimately focused applications on smaller schools that would see him as an individual.

[rossnrachel]

lisztserve - You raised a very interesting point! One that has been the topic of conversation between my S and I lately. He wants a large school so it won't feel like his hs. I think he belongs ("fit") in a small school. Now how to convince him? It sounds like your school's grading system/transcript is similar to my S's. It is interesting that your S attended two schools - both with this type (or "lack of") grading system. I don't know about performance of other students at his hs (no rank), other than talking mom-to-mom. Did your S want a small school? (Is there a way to determine if a college places less emphasis on transcript and considers the "individual" - as you mentioned?) Do you have any suggestions - he is considering computer science, but he isn't certain. Thank you.

[LINYMOM]

Welcome to rossnracheal (and any other new people) and welcome back, Jayne!

rossnrachel: I just want to point out that there is really a range between small and large. There are the really small (Lafayette - probably 2500 - and others even smaller)... then up to Tulane/Lehigh size (5,000 or so)... then up to a bit more (UMiami, 10,000 or so).... then you have what some would call big (Delaware - about 15,000 or so)... up to Maryland (which seemed really big to DS at about 25,000)... and then the humongous (Penn State, University of Central Florida 40,000-50,000). So there's definitely a lot between small and large.

It's good to visit a representative of each so your DS can get a feel. Miami might feel huge to him if he's from a small private HS. Then you can hear what students at each school have to say about the size (biased, of course). From our school visits (3 years ago with DD, within the last year with DS):

- Lafayette - We got to sit in on a class - DS picked an astrophysics class - only about 20 kids. DS loved that.

- Binghamton - A lot was said about big classes and DS was told you can hide in your classes - this is not for him.

- UConn - tour guide explained that it seems big when you get there but when you think about it, the campus has layers like a tootsie pop (the middle is where classes are, circles by dorms, circled by athletic facilities, etc). Seemed do-able after we heard that.

- Maryland seemed overwhelmingly large when we did just a drive through, but when we actually went on the tour, it seemed more manageable.

The big school people (like Maryland) will tell you that there are many ways to make a big school feel smaller - by joining clubs, living in certain types of "living learning environments" (or whatever they are called at college x, y and z), but if you are on a small campus, there's no way to make it feel bigger. (This seems to be a mantra at big schools.)

In fact, the schools on DS' list really range - he will apply to Lafayette on one end of the range and Maryland on the other (and the rest in the middle - closer to the 5-10,000 range). He has about 475 in his HS class - so the HS is about 2000.

For the new people, my DD is at Delaware and it just doesn't seem like a big school.

[pamom59]

@rossnrachel:

I think at this early stage it is good to keep an open mind about size of school, rural vs. urban, etc. Kids do change their minds as the process goes on. My children attended a small independent school and both felt they wanted to get out of the private school "bubble." So D1 looked only at large public schools and ended up at Pitt. While she is happy there, after first semester she said she does miss the small intellectual environment and realizes now why the majority of her classmates chose small LACs. Go figure. She has joined a sorority so that helps to make the big school feel smaller. She also declared a major in a smaller dept where she will get to know her professors. Just saying, how kids think they know what they want, and then change their minds. So, I'd say its good to have choices come April.

My D2 initially started with a list of the same sort of schools as D1. Almost randomly, we decided to visit Drexel, a city school with no campus, no football team, etc. While it is a large-ish school it seems to feel smaller because kids in the same major get to know each other. There are lots of engineers and business students there, very career focused. I never would have picked Drexel out of a book but after visiting she became interested and it is now in the top 2.

Another thing I noticed is that at the beginning of the college search my kids talked about more far away schools but as college approached they decided not to go so far away. So my D1 who initially considered schools like Miami, Tulane, Colorado, decided to go to Pitt. She says maybe she will go farther away from grad school.

My D2 now wants to be no more than 1 hour from home.

So, best to keep options open, size-wise, geography-wise, campus-wise.

[jaynebe]

pamom, does pitt have any sort of campus? one of the reasons my d didn't like BU was the lack of green space. i did an online tour but didn't see any campus type green. (hi linymom, can you believe we're at it again?)

[pamom59]

Pitt has a large green space around its iconic Cathedral of Learning. Try this link to Pitt's website photo tour. University of Pittsburgh A short walk from the campus there is huge public park, Schenley Park. Schenley Park

[pamom59]

you can also check out these videos

cathedral of learning
Cathedral of Learning at the University of Pittsburgh - YouTube


School spirit at football game Sweet Caroline, LET'S GO PITT!! - YouTube