bluebayou

Sorry, I meant to write that there are no "actuarial" courses that are required.

Econ, stats and finance can easily be added to any major as electives. But note, they are NOT required to sit for the exam (the lady I referred to above, only took Stats and Econ, not finance)....

...although undoubtedly they would easier to take in college and would better prepare one for the exams.

Personally, I would guess that a major in actuarial studies would be frowned upon by med schools (since they tend to discount "vocational" majors). IMO, it is far better to major in a traditional liberal arts field, and take Econ, Stats and Finance as electives. (And Stats counts for bcpm.) Ask your college premed advisors.

That maybe 100% accurate, but remember, one is applying to academe. And academe prefers those that are all-in, not those trying to hedge their bets. Is it elitism? Sure. (But they make the rules.)

kdb063

Med school is 1 year of:
General biology
Physics with lab
General chemistry (inorganic chemistry) with lab
Organic chemistry with lab
Calculus
English

For actuarial career you need:
finance
microeconomics
macroeconomics
three semesters of calculus
one semester of linear algebra
two semesters of calculus-based probability and statistics
actuarial science courses, as available
computer science courses
business courses, such as marketing
communication courses, such as speech, business writing and technical writing
literature, history, art, political science, the humanities, and other liberal arts classes

Math classes are the only ones that overlap. With high gpa, and great exam scores, i'll get a job as an actuary (after passing 2 exams) ..which is before i get into med school. And of course the college i attend will guide me in when to take all these classes and stuff like that. I want to go into surgery and by that time i'll be done with actuarial studies since i don't HAVE to take all five exams to get a job. I also have to take into consideration, i need time for research, volunteering and working hours. Only time that will be very hard if i double major with this is around the time when i'll be studying for MCATS and the first 2 tests for actuary. But considering everyone's suggestions and comments, i'm still confused on what to make my major?! I keep asking this question because i dont want to make a mistake in choosing something that'll make the employers or med schools question me ..i want to have it all balanced out.

bluebayou

No, you do not "need"; note the site says "should include" not "must" include.

Many of those courses are nice-to-haves, particularly for the business world. Marketing, for example, will provide you with absolutely zero value for the actuary exam. Business Communications is also a nice-to-have, and will have absolutely nothing to do with the exams. Heck, many highly selective schools don't even offer marketing and comm classes to undergrads, nor do they offer actuarial science majors. But yet they still have students that become actuaries.

But, become an actuary. It's a great living and quality of life.

kdb063

Well if you talk about quality of life then obviously being a surgeon for a women is a HUGE step and actuary is same amount of work but shorter time ..i mean it's all about strength, ability, and commitment. It is a great living.. that is definitely right. But if everyone keeps up with that mentality thn there will be no female surgeons left.

ucbalumnus

Pre-med courses ~= 10 semester courses of science and math, plus 2 semester courses of English that are probably required by most colleges anyway.

Typical liberal arts major ~= 12 to 15 semester courses.

Even if nothing overlaps, the combination would take up 24 to 27 out of a typical 32 semester courses that one would take over four years. That leaves 5 to 8 semester courses of electives or breadth requirements (though if nothing overlaps, then it is likely that at least some breadth requirements are satisfied by the combination).

kristin5792

I'm with I_wanna_be_Brown on this one. I can't quite wrap my head around "I want to be both a surgeon and an actuary," even though I can understand how the OP would be drawn to both.

Granted, I'm only a first year medical student, so I don't know a ton about the medical field, but I imagine I know enough to have some insight into the life of a surgeon (I spent 200+ hours shadowing one). As far as I can tell, having a career as a surgeon and simultaneously having a career as an actuary would be impossible because the two lifestyles and careers aren't compatible. Perhaps you could enter private practice, practice part time, and use the other part of your time to work as an actuary...but that seems like quite a headache (just my opinion though). It seems extremely challenging for most surgeons to balance their professional and personal lives, so I imagine adding an additional career on top of that precarious balance would probably not be wise.

Might you be more interested in business, and have mis-characterized that as an interest in actuarial science? The MD/MBA combination is quite common and seems useful, especially if one wants to open a private practice (where business savvy would be beneficial) or might want to dabble in the business side of medicine (eg as an administrator) in the future. You'd still need math, finance, econ, etc to go that route--so I wonder if that's more what you're describing.

I just can't see how a career as a surgeon (ie, one who does surgery and runs a clinic as opposed to one who does exclusively research) is compatible with a career as an actuary (ie, one who works for a firm and has a nice client base).

As for taking the actuary exams so you have the option to have a job during med school to avoid accruing so much debt, I wouldn't count on having the time, energy, or desire to have a real job during medical school. Exactly 0 of my classmates have jobs (except for an occasional babysitting gig) right now. Medical school is a HUGE time suck (a worthwhile one!) in both preclinical and clinical years. It's not like an extension of undergrad where you have flexibility to schedule your classes around your work--you're part of a program, and save for some electives, your school dictates your academic commitments. Just for grins, I'll share with you that my typical week is 8-4 on two days a week, 8-12 on others, and 8-6 on days when I'm in clinic. On top of that, I have to prep for classes and study. Rarely am I finished with my work before 11PM, but it's not miserable--it's what I've wanted to do for as long as I can remember.

The point is, med school (and medicine) is more than a full time job. It would be ridiculously challenging to fit something else on top of it.

kdb063

You could be right and like i said before my main goal is medicine ..this is just my backup plan. I never considered MD/MBA program.. not sure if i wanted to go exactly into business.

Mythreesons

It's interesting that on this site there are many posts by high schoolers interested in medicine, but who are trying to carve out a "back up plan." This is a rational thought process becuase medical school is very competitve. Based on nothing more than gut instinct, however, I think a resume that reflects a back up plan would be detrimental in the minds of many, many people in the medical school admissions process. They don't care what you've majored in (so long as your science GPA shows you can handle the work), but I suspect they want to see a total committment to medicine, since that is what they ususally did.

To the OP, I've got a kid in medical school and one who just became an actuary. (Neither had any interest in the other field) The actuary took very little relating to his field becuase he didn't make the decision until junior year. As a result, he got a masters in actuarial science and now has a very good job. I'd suggest you major in something you'll enjoy and make sure to take all the medical school requirements. You can put together a resume for an actuarial job later in your college career.

mcat2

This is a very good point which is often missed by those high schoolers or even premeds who are trying to carve out a "back up plan." It is not a coincident that a word like "calling" is used to describe somebody who is going to this field.

Also, it is rumored that "what is your backup plan if you did not get into med school" is often a trick question asked during an interview. You do not want your resume to volunteer this kind of information: "hey...I have a nice backup plan in other lucrative career path."

I learned from SDN a specific case: A relatively strong student double-majored in biochemistry as well as undergraduate business major (called HAAS, which I heard it is a quite prestigious program there) at Cal. It took him 3 attempts (likely in 4 years) before he had got into a medical school. He originally thought majoring in "hard" majors should give him some bonus points and he later found this is not the case. Some other student he knew who double-majored in psychology and sociology, arguably "softer" majors, got in the first year she applied. The lesson he learned was that his coursework and ECs speak loudly "I am not totally committed to medicine."

kdb063

So in my case, what's going to show the most commitment to medicine (if i'm going for stats major)?

Mythreesons

You can major in statistics; that's no problem. It's a math major which should be fine. The rubber will hit the road sophomore and junior years when it comes time to plan for the summer. If you want to become an actuary, it is important to try to get an internship in that field, or something insurance related. Many companies hire from their summer intern program, or at least want some experience in the field before hiring you. If, however, you want medicine, you need to put time in shadowing doctors and doing some research, and summers are a good time to get that stuff in. If you want medicine, an actuarial internship will look strange.

The good news is you don't have to make up your mind now. Try to do some medical shadowing as early as possible, however. You need to do it eventually, and it will help you make up your mind about what you want to do. Remember that the majority of people who think in high school that they want to be a doctor end up persuing another path.

MiamiDAP

I am no familiar about combining these 2 at UG level. However, I would like to point out that my D's (MS1) Med. School class has several lawyers (yes, they already have a law degree).

ucbalumnus

Haas is the name of the business school (analogous to Penn's business school being named Wharton and MIT's business school being named Sloan).

Isn't it quite possible that a student whose goal is to go into a private or small group practice as a physician would want to take business courses or even major in business, since a private or small group practice involves managing it as a business?

bluebayou

Absolutely, those courses would be of great value to a future doctor (or future lawyer). But the simple fact is that med and law schools don't see it that way (or don't care). They have made clear (for many years) that they prefer a traditional liberal arts major over a major that is considered 'vocational'.

Speaking of Wharton...don't all of their undergrads end up with a degree in Econ -- (albeit, a BS, but still close enough to a traditional liberal arts major)?

kdb063

If the premed path doesn't work out, i've seen most students going towards the business route for accounting or finance. I suppose i didn't look at the premed/actuary plan realistically but i'm glad i posted the question here and saw some great opinions ..thank you everyone!

I guess i was more driven towards going for the big stuff but didn't realize one big step was enough for a lifetime. Hopefully, i will get a better outlook on what path to take as i take college level classes required for premed or actuary. I am just looking to go into something that is guaranteed. In the business area, i want to work for corporations and perhaps a job that is on a high level of critical thinking so i was exploring management/analyst jobs and i came across the actuarial/financial analysts and it interested me when being a surgeon was my original plan. Because i have seen other successful physicians and surgeons who are also involved in the business department. And when i say combining these two, i dont want to do MD/MBA and get a job that pertains to just sitting at the table and doing management stuff.

So that's why i wanted to see how you guys felt about taking this route and it obviously seems very complicated because if i worry about premed courses and mcats then i'l fall behind on actuarial courses.. because you need internship/volunteering or some kind of experience for both meanwhile studying for the current courses i'm in.. are there any other ideas for finance/math/business related professions i can look into along with premed besides actuarial science?