bgmargate

Thx Creekland

MiamiDAP

"Personally, I see few advantages of attending a research Uni with a med school, but I do see numerous disadvantages. "
-Personally, I do not see any. And there is always a hospital somewhere. D. did not have anything to do with the hospital near her UG. She was not involved with it in any capacity. She also graduated from UG that did NOT have a Med. School and she sould not know if there is any difference. She went to UG that was a perfect match to her personality and very wide (much wider than in most cases) range of interests. The only thing was that her day did not stretch from 24 hours to some 40 hours, so she ended up dropping some of her activities and letting some opportunities pass her by, not much you can do about it. 24 hrs is 24 hrs and she ended up having impressive list of ECs on her Med. School application anyway, again, dropping few things for the lack of space to list them all.

Creekland

And, as always, this is the key. One needs to decide which type of school is the perfect fit for them as all types can provide what is needed to get into med school.

The perks of going to a research U with a med school only work as advantages if that's what the students, themselves, are looking for. Ditto that with the perks of going to an LAC, choosing prestige, etc.

Sue22

"Regardless, you are an International, so prestige trumps all, and that eliminates liberal arts colleges."

I would strenuously disagree. Liberal arts colleges have some of the highest medical school placement rates in the country. In fact, top LACs outperform large research universities when it comes to graduate school placement.

Bates college claims an overall 80-100 percent admit rate to med. schools, with virtually every student with a GPA or 3.5 or better admitted.

FAQ?s about ?Pre-Med? at Bates | Career Development Center | Bates College

UMich claims a 60-70 percent overall acceptance rate.

Large research universities generally DO have better facilities than small liberal arts colleges, but what a small LAC will get you is excellent access to professors and more individualized attention. At a small LAC all your courses will be taught by the professor. At a large university, although the course may officially be taught by a bright light in the field, someone whose reputation outstrips that of the average LAC prof, in reality your classes may largely be taught by graduate student teaching assistants.

It's a different story if you are planning to return home for graduate school. Admissions committees abroad may or may not be familiar with some of the smaller LACs. If you are expecting to return home for grad school you may be better off at a large RU. Check with med schools in your country.

WayOutWestMom-
The AAMC table is based on place of residence, not citizenship. When my DH was applying to grad schools he was considered a US resident although he was not a US citizen.

Some med schools do not admit international applicants. UMich, for instance, requires that applicants be US citizens or permanent residents:

University of Michigan Medical School :: Admissions :: Requirements

While Harvard does not:
http://hms.harvard.edu/sites/default...inAidGuide.pdf

Be aware that "best of" lists often look only at larger schools and are sometimes based on the numbers of majors or applicants rather than the percentages admitted. In other words, just because an undergraduate institution has a zillion premed majors does not make it a great premed school. You may find yourself forced into a tight funnel of applicants and it may be harder to find research opportunities.

I would do a LOT of on-line research if I were you. Some things to look at:

What's the school's overall med school placement rate?

What's the school's placement rate for students above a certain cut-off? Some schools have gatekeeping med school boards that won't support a student's application unless the student meets certain criteria, for instance, above a certain GPA. School's without such requirements will look worse in terms of placement rates because their stats will include students with low GPAs whose chances for admission are low.

Does the school require students who want to be supported by the med school admissions committee or advisors to be an official premed student?

Are non premed majors routinely frozen out of typically premed courses? In other words, if you want to major in history but still apply to med school, when you try to sign up for organic chemistry are you going to be put in line behind all the official premed or chemistry majors?

What percentage of undergraduate students are able to get summer research work? This is especially important as a potential med school applicant.

Does the school have a special relationship with a specific med school? If so, does the med school admit international students? Does it offer financial aid?

Are there distribution requirements (more common at LACs)? If you're very focussed on science courses you may not want to be forced to take courses in the humanities.

What kinds of support does the school offer international students? When my DH was an undergrad at Bates the school kept certain dorms open over breaks and made a concerted effort to help international students get jobs or paid research internships over the summer.

What would you do if premed didn't work out for you? Would you still be happy at the school? Does it have other features you like?

What does your scholarship cover? If it doesn't cover room and board you'll want to look at these costs as well and look at how the individual schools help foreign students close the gap.

MiamiDAP

"What percentage of undergraduate students are able to get summer research work? This is especially important as a potential med school applicant."
-This opportunity is very difficult to get into. Even for kids with 4.0 who have been working at this palce before, who have great recs and actul lab experiences, it is practically not possible. However, to get into research at your UG is easy, email to a person in charge is what it takes. This may last for several years and may result in great LORs and various award nominations at graduation. So, beside money part (as you usually not getting any $$ for it vs. great $$ in summer research program) this option will work and would be available at ANY UG, having Med School there is not relevant to having various Med. Research labs at college.
"Does the school have a special relationship with a specific med school?" - not sure about importance of this at all.
One extremely important factor is how good pre-med advisory and how cood pre-med commitee are and their timely procedures. The earlier you apply to Med. School, the better. My D. has definitely had an advantage of early application because her commitee was done with their part very early in a process. Her advisor was staying on top of things and informed her quickly about requirement changes at one of her Med schools, so that she had enough time to adjust her senior fall schedule. It has happened after she already registered for classes and has applied to this med. School, that eventually accepted her because she had all requirments completed, ironically she ended up going somewhere else.
Overall acceptance rate depends largely on how many are getting thru pre-med commitee. There are some Elite schools that are known for not letting some applicants thru because they care more about their own reputation than this particular student, who could have a chance otherwise but locked out by his pre-med commitee. There are always 2 sides of the same coin. Treat every peice of any statistics with great caution and better yet do not hung up too much to it. Sometime talking to current students will give you a better picture than various statistical numbers.
Make sure to pay a great respect to your own desires and perceptions, Trust yourself more than you ever trust others, it will work!

WayOutWestMom

Sue--it's very difficult to claim that you are a legal resident of X state when you are not a US citizen or green card holder. On AMCAS, those listing "Foreign" have listed an address outside the US as their permanent, legal address, even though they may be applying from within the US after having attended college here. And I do know many med schools won't admit non-citizens. Most state schools will not except under pretty unusual circumstances.

Please see this somewhat dated document for a list of all US med school and their admissions and financial aid policies toward internationals:

NAAHP: Medical School Admission Policies Towards Non-U.S. Citizens

bluebayou

Except that is no way relevant to the OP, for two reasons. 1) LAC's have (almost) no prestige outside of the US, so the degree is not as portable as a degree from a major research Uni which is recognized overseas. (And since the odds of admission to med school are miniscule for an international (since most US med schools do not accept internationals), the OP needs to think about using his/her degree later.) And two, the OP is an international so grad -- really med -- school placement rates is extremely rare. Heck, I would submit that attending an undergrad with a Med school that does accept a few internationals each year would be much better than attending any LAC. (The OP could spend four years schmoozing the local med school with the chance that lightening strikes.)

If the student was NOT an International, then any top US college could get him/her to med school, and LACs are excellent choices. But the OP is an International -- much different rules.

Exactly my point. If the OP has to return to his/her native country, then the OP needs a degree that is well recognized overseas (IMO).

Grad and med admissions are much, much different.

(and btw, "med placement rates" are fictitious numbers and also irrelevant to the OP since they don't separate out Internationals.)

kristin5792

Sue, those are all fantastic questions to ask, no doubt. And the answers would be great to have for all applicants, OP included. But to the OP, finding the answers to those questions is nigh impossible because not all schools publish such data, data this is published is often skewed and thus challenging to interpret, and much of that information is considered "trade secrets" and simply unavailable. Remember, med schools are not required to reveal such information nor are they required to be transparent in their evaluation and selection processes. I agree with bluebayou--you need to seriously consider the high possibility that you will not be one of the few dozen international students accepted to US MD school in a few years (assuming you even still want to do that), so getting a degree from a school that is well known and thus useful in your/another country would be the route I'd choose.