Is calculus (or any math) necessary for med school?

pyles_m · 07-20-2009, 07:06 PM

I want to know if taking a calculus class is a necessity for med school or not. I know that some school will require a year or a semester and then maybe stats. Would it look bad to not take any math classes at all (besides physics and chem)? I dont have to and I never really liked math a lot but I dont want them to ask me why I never took any math classes in the interview

ZFanatic · 07-20-2009, 07:40 PM

I believe there are a number of schools that don't require calculus, but it would probably be best to at least take a semester of calculus or statistics...

apumic · 07-20-2009, 08:13 PM

You'll likely be taking stats in med school as well as needing math on the MCAT. Only a few schools require math; however, many strongly recommend it...so, honestly, I'd take at least a semester of stats and/or calc.

mmmcdowe · 07-20-2009, 08:21 PM

I suggest a full year of calc, even if it was AP. This is because if you happen to take any upper level chemistry or biochemistry, you might need it, if only to understand explanations.

MyOpinion · 07-20-2009, 08:22 PM

I believe that in order to have a solid application and if you want to be seriously competitive, you need at least one semester of calculus. Some of the top schools in the countries require two semesters (Harvard)..

Everyone should consider one semester of calculus a standard pre med requirement.
Stats courses are usually gutter courses and more of a joke....

silence_kit · 07-20-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Stats courses are usually gutter courses and more of a joke....

Statistics actually can be quite a difficult subject, but you are right that premeds don't take the hard statistics courses.

afan · 07-21-2009, 04:48 PM

You don't need calculus to practice medicine, nor will you need it to make it through medical school. The stats taught in medical school is at a very basic mathematical level.

However, if you are serious about premed, you should take a year of calculus. The vast majority of applicants have done this, so to skip it could put you at a disadvantage.

If you are taking physics and chemistry courses in college, you will need the calculus. I don't know of any college level physics course that does not require calc. Virtually any college level chem, beyond the intro level, would assume students have taken at least a year of calc. Of course, if you major in physics or chem, you will need far more math than that.

Med school admission is so competitive that it is suicide to choose your courses based on the requirements of a handful of places. You want to be able to apply to a large number of schools.

apumic · 07-21-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

You don't need calculus to practice medicine, nor will you need it to make it through medical school. The stats taught in medical school is at a very basic mathematical level.

True but a solid understanding stats is pretty much necessary to really understand research. If you don't know your stats (and research methods) and have good intuition of mathematics, you can probably be convinced of just about anything by someone persuasiveness enough....

Quote:

However, if you are serious about premed, you should take a year of calculus. The vast majority of applicants have done this, so to skip it could put you at a disadvantage.

"Most applicants"?! CC and SDN are not representative samples of applicants. I suspect the number that take a single semester of calc is closer to half and only a few schools actually require any at all. Probably less than a quarter take a full year (2 semesters) of calc. Most probably do take a semester minimum of some sort of college math, however.

Quote:

If you are taking physics and chemistry courses in college, you will need the calculus. I don't know of any college level physics course that does not require calc. Virtually any college level chem, beyond the intro level, would assume students have taken at least a year of calc. Of course, if you major in physics or chem, you will need far more math than that.

Most general chem & physics courses taken by pre-meds don't involve any calculus. Most schools offer a calc-based general physics course; however, it is usually meant primarily for engineering and physics majors. Pre-meds generally take a middle-level general physics course for science majors. I can't say that I've ever heard of a gen chem course requiring calc as a pre- or co-req. Even the upper-level chem courses a pre-med would take, such as biochem (optional) and o-chem (req'd) don't require any calc background to do well (nor would it really help you much).

Quote:

Med school admission is so competitive that it is suicide to choose your courses based on the requirements of a handful of places. You want to be able to apply to a large number of schools.

Sure, but a year of calc isn't required at many schools (14 I believe require at least a semester of calc but only a couple require a year).

pyles_m · 07-21-2009, 10:31 PM

I know that the national acceptance to medical school is 50% but I wonder what is it like for people from CC or SDN. I would rather be compared to those types of people anyway. I've decided that I am going to take a full year of calc and push back my other class until later. Maybe junior year I'll do a semester of stats and another of bio chem.

MyOpinion · 07-21-2009, 10:43 PM

I do not believe that the majority of applicants take a whole year of calculus but the one semester of calculus is pretty much a given for a premed. Those shooting for Harvard and the like must take a whole year and since they are also applying to schools that do not have that specific requirement, they will be compared to students who only took a semester or a gutter course in math/stats.

Clearly, who do you think is going to look bad within that pool of applicants? Go for a year. Your application will be stronger.

afan · 07-22-2009, 07:28 PM

I was a biochem major. One could not have made it very far at all without a year of calc. It was just assumed, and not only for P Chem and P biochem.

From a med school admissions requirement page

Quote:

The Committee on Admissions considers the level of courses when evaluating academic performance and determining a candidates suitability for medicine. We require a strong preparation in the sciences and mathematics basic to medical school studies. Candidates should take courses that are comparable to courses taken by students majoring in these subjects....
Mathematics: one year of calculus. Advanced placement credits may satisfy this requirement (Calculus AB - 1 semester, Calculus BC - 2 semesters). A course in statistics does not meet this requirement.

Now I suppose it is possible that the occasional student is admitted without this background, but if you do not take real physics, which cannot be taught at the college level without calculus, and most applicants have read the instructions and done what they are told, how do you think your application will look?

and from a course catalog:

Quote:

Physical Sciences 3. Electromagnetism, Waves, Imaging, and Information
This course is an introduction to light and sound waves, electromagnetism, and information.
Note: This course is part of an integrated introduction to the physical sciences intended for students who plan to pursue a concentration in the life sciences and/or satisfy pre-medical requirements in Physics. May not ordinarily be taken for credit in addition to Physics 1b, 11b, or 15b. This course, when taken for a letter grade, meets the Core area requirement for Science A.
Prerequisite: Physical Sciences 2 (or Physics 1a or 11a), Mathematics 1b, or equivalent.

Math1b is second semester calculus. Note that, at this college, this physics course is advertised as suitable for premeds and life sciences majors, but it is not physics for physicists.

from a different university

Quote:

The Department of Physics offers three introductory course sequences that help develop your knowledge of the physical world and your quantitative reasoning and logic skills. The first course in each sequence focuses on the behavior of mechanical objects and oscillations (often referred to simply as `Classical Mechancis'). The second course in each sequence focuses on the electrical and magnetic properties of objects and devices and optics (often referred to simply as `Electricity and Magnetism'). All course sequences are calculus based and have a required laboratory.
...

For the Biological Sciences: General Physics
The sequence primarily intended for students interested in the biological sciences consists of PHY 53L (`Classical Mechanics') and PHY 54L (`Electricity and Magnetism'). All topics included in the MCAT exam are covered in this sequence.

Someone who is really bad at math, or just hates it, might reasonably fear that taking more than absolutely necessary could hurt the GPA, and lessen chances for admission. However, you will be competing with people who took a year of calc, at least, and the courses one would expect. Remember most people who apply to medical school are science majors, and usually required to take the math for that reason alone. Even bio majors usually need at least a year of calculus.

So... is it POSSIBLE to apply based on the minimum math and physics background? Yes. However, you will limit yourself to those places that do not require more. You will also be competing with students with stronger backgrounds and more rigorous course work.

And yes, if you are interested in a research career, you should certainly learn the language, which requires some math.

rer678 · 08-14-2009, 03:24 AM

My university offers both an intro stats course (100-level) and a 300-level stats course which requires a background in multivariable calculus. Theoretically I could take the upper level course because I did some multivariable calculus a few years ago, but I'm guessing that the advanced statistics in that course will be far beyond what I'm expected to know for medical school. I'm not looking to get a degree in math or anything - I'm just taking this class because a couple of the medical schools in which I am interested require some kind of a stats course. Do you think the introductory course would be okay?

afan · 08-15-2009, 12:13 PM

You do not need to KNOW anything about statistics to make it through medical school.Depending on where you are applying, you might need to take a course to satisfy their requirements.

It is certainly useful for a doctor to know some so that you can interpret the medical literature. However, as a medical student you will mainly be reading textbooks, rather than original reports that include statistics. When medical schools ask their students to bring, or learn, some stats, they are looking at very basic knowledge. This could be picked up in a one semester broad overview course. Therefore a stat course at the mathematical level of requiring multivariable calculus would be far beyond what they have in mind. Not only could it put you out of your depth if your multivariable calculus was at the high school level and years ago, but it would be too narrow, and far too detailed to be that helpful. If you are looking at medical schools that require some statistics just take a course that meets their requirements. I assure you it will not be a course at this level, very few doctors would have the background to take it.

From your description I would say "take the 100 level course"

pnb2002 · 08-17-2009, 11:01 AM

If you've taken the AP Calc BC in high-school and thus can place out of it, would you recommend it? I understand that taking it again could help the GPA, but is there any other reason to take it again? I'd appreciate any help!

afan · 08-18-2009, 06:32 PM

Not sure what "it" is. If you mean should you retake introductory calculus after AP, maybe. Most people say that a good college course is more rigorous than the AP exam. On the other hand, if you know the AP syllabus really well (say got a 5 and thought it was an easy test), then you might not learn anything from taking calc again. If you got less than 5, and certainly if you are going to take courses that require the calc knowledge, then taking again might be a good idea.

For med school requirement purposes, ask your premed advisor. Some schools require math, and you need to make sure you take the courses they require. This may or may not include stats, if that is the consideration.

You can get through medical school with nothing beyond 10th grade math. But, if you are a reasonable math student, then a good grade will help you application. And having solid math will help your physics grade.

Short answer- check with premed advising to make sure you take the courses you need.
Once you are sure you will be permitted to apply, then pick courses that either are interesting or useful for your major.