icy9ff8

One difficulty with international applicants using an "agency" is that any agency or educational consultant is limited in large part to much of the same info. available to the public, and some of it is misleading marketing material. Ideally each prospective student would be able to visit multiple schools to personally assess and evaluate the intangibles. An above poster wrote that students at Andover and Hill both will get a worldclass education. The educational experiences at these two schools are dramatically different. I have interviewed many who have taught at these two schools, though none had teaching experience at both. I also know several students at each school and have made multiple visits to each campus. The caliber of student at these schools is as different as comparing a U.S. Marine boot camp experience with being a Boy Scout. The quality of one's classmates has a profound effect on the educational experience even when identical texts are used as the pace and depth of analysis will differ substantially. Comparing these two particular schools as somehow equal indicates a lack of familiarity with both, and is wishful thinking at best. I encourage anybody to compare the college matriculation lists from these two schools and witness the dramatic difference from top to bottom of each class. If one truly believes that Andover and Hill offer similiar worldclass educations, then save your money and consider your local schools. A comparison between schools such as Andover and Hotchkiss would be fair, or, possibly Hill and Peddie, but not Hill and Andover. I would be comfortable that an average student scoring 50 SSAT or above would be a serious candidate for admission to Hill, but certainly not for Andover.

sabooks

OK, maybe I shouldn't have used Hill as my "next level down" example, but my point was that some schools have a big range, but their top students do just as well as the Andover students. These tend to be the larger "second level down" schools.

icy9ff8

Yes, Hill was not a good choice, in my opinion, for several reasons, some of which have been discussed in prior threads and which I am not comfortable raising without first hand knowledge. The students at Hill are, academically speaking, very unlike those found at the top 15 or so boarding schools. When comparing the top ten percent of students within the most academically elite 15 boarding schools, I agree with your point that they can and, often, do matriculate at similiar colleges and universities. About one year ago the Wall St. Journal ranked, not rated though, prep schools based on college placement to 6 of the Ivies, MIT, and Stanford. For some of the ranked schools this survey included only the top two or three percent of graduates in a particular class from a particular prep school. This survey by the WSJ would disagree with your premise. My study was much more comprehensive and, when limited to the top 15 boarding schools, supports your point.

warriorboy648

Is there a listing of the top 15 schools that you are talking about?

Also, I think the point is that if you are at the top of your class at a school such as Loomis or St. George's then you will recieve an education similiar to Andover's. (I know that is simplifying the whole experience.)

What happens to the kids at the bottom 25% of a school like Andover? Do they still have a chance to go to some of the top colleges?

Lexima

icy9ff8, you are doing an interesting study. Are you a journalist? Consultant? Are you selling the results of your study as a product? It would be interesting to know more about the objectives of your study and your vantage point.

sbergman

The tier question comes up so often that I can't help wondering - Once a person finds a top 15 prep to get them into a top 10 university is there then a list of top five professions to be practiced at the top five firms? Do you and your spouse (culled from a list of top 15 available mates) then buy a house in a top 15 zip code and, while summering at one of the top 15 vacation spots, procreate so you can continue the process with the next generation? In this increasingly flat world, do we only include the top 15 schools in the States or do we need to factor in Eton, Le Rosey, etc.

As for the Andover question - based on their 2007 matriculation list (http://www.andover.edu/cco/matrics/default.asp), it looks like a few poor slobs ended up at places like Babson and Hollins, even, egads! state schools. By my rough calculation, about 1/3 of the class ended up at the Ivies/Stanford/MIT/Chicago/Williams/Amherst and 2/3 went elsewhere. Of course, I'd argue that that "elsewhere" includes some really great schools that might be perfect for a specific student -- like Babson and Hollins.

thekidhere

Here's something to keep in mind: My graduating class had over 40% matriculate to ivies (ie I went to one of your "tier one" schools), but now in college I feel like kids who went to prep schools and public magnets are pretty evenly represented, and rare. Don't go to a "tier 1" because you think it'll get you into a better college. Every one of the schools offers the same education if you choose to take it. What they differ in is the rest of the experience. The schools where you will participate, engage yourself, and have fun should be your personal tier one. If you pick a school that's less attractive to you but has a stellar reputation, you'll probably get less out of it than you would get from going somewhere you love. (and your college choices will reflect it)

nhfootballer

I think two things determine the tiers. The first is the selectivity of a school based on the % of students accepted and rejected. This is easy to understand. I also think the tiers are set on whether or not a school has a local, regional, national or international reputation. Exeter, Saint Paul's etc. are all internationally known, receive a ton of applications and can be very selective. Figuring out a school's level of reputation is not easy to do or understand.

Burb Parent

sbergman -- Years ago when I went to Columbia Business School, the Dean of Advising had a large sign behind his desk -- "Welcome to the Rat Race." Anyway, I thought you would appreciate that.

I think it's best to look for a school in which you can excel, but not excel without real effort. It's hard to find the right fit, but it's so important. The people who can excel in the right environment generally do well in school and beyond.

icy9ff8

I agree with BurbParent. Rating the "quality of education" at a particular school is something I cannot do without more guideline parameters. For example, the quality of education where the median and average SSAT scores are 92 should be high for a student with an 84 to 99 SSAT, but might be too fast paced and too in-depth for a student scoring 50 to 65 on the SSAT. Conversely, the 94 SSAT scorer might be bored and unchallanged at a school with an average SSAT score of 62. Matching an appropriate school with an appropriate student, simplistically speaking, based on average SSAT scores that are close to the median SSAT scores should result in a higher quality of education for the matched student. One aspect of a quality education should be for the student to be challanged, but not overwhelmed, to nurture intellectual growth. Academically overwhelming a student might cause a loss of self esteem and confusion-- just like tossing a high school quarterback into a starting role in the NFL might do more harm than good.

Burb Parent

icy9ff8 -- I really don't know enough about how ssat scores correlate with school success to conclude that they should be used that way exclusively. I was responding more to the comments made by sbergman. Actually, I think that it is possible for a 99% ssat scorer to be challenged and experience high success at a school with a 70% ssat average, as long as that school offers higher-level classes.

My observation is that once you go beyond the most competitive schools and in the territory of the top 50, there is a broad range of ssat scores.

I really don't know much about sports recruitement to comment to nhfootballer except to say that the most competitive schools don't have a monopoly on chances to top tier colleges. People get there many different routes, but these top colleges routinely look at class rankings or take a look at the courses you took and how well you did in them. So if you can find a school in which you can be in the top 10 - 20 %, which has a strong track record for the athletic recruitment you want, and has a strong track record in college acceptance at the schools you want, you might find yourself in a great position when college comes around.

cgarrett101@aol.

My D got very ill her junior year at a private school in Calif., and decided in late March as she was recovering, to apply to boarding school to restart her junior year. Unfortunately, many schools were full, but a couple "top tier" schools were willing to accept her because her numbers were very good. However, when we visited those schools, many of the students plus some teachers seemed very uptight and tense. Maybe it was just the east coast-west coast thing, but one teacher actually yelled at our tour guide, and at another school a worker told us only "the Asian kids" were nice. My D, a self-starter, decided she did not need that competitive environment to succeed, so she chose Tabor Academy, which had a more friendly "feel," and offered all the AP classes she needed/wanted.

This month she was accepted, early action, to Stanford, her first choice. I think it may be because she distinguished herself at Tabor, excelling in her academics and extracurriculars. Also, she may have been lost at a "top tier." Who knows? But just like college, the name doesn't necessarily mean everything. Of course, she is thrilled about Stanford, but she was able to get in while still enjoying high school.

warriorboy648

Thanks for that info. Two of my son's top picks are not considered tier 1, but are great schools for him.

jennycraig

There are many posts from parents (and some from students) stating their child is only applying to the best schools out there—if they can’t get into a Tier One school, they will attend their local public high school or magnet school. I have given these statements a lot of thought, particularly because my daughters (one currently in boarding school and one applying for 2008 admission) did not apply, nor would ever be accepted by the AESD schools.

Both are good students, but certainly not of the caliber of some of the posters on this board. They enjoy school, do fairly well academically, play sports, and have a wide circle of friends whom they love dearly.

We live in an area where the local high schools are excellent; offering numerous extra-curricular activities and more than 23 AP classes, (average boarding school offers 13). The test scores are the highest in the state, the district spends over $14,300 on each pupil, and the class sizes aren’t too terribly large, on average 25 kids per class.

Perhaps if my daughters were more like many of the posters here, they would thrive at our local high school. Cream rises to the top, and it appears that many of the kids on this board are crème de la crème. But my kids, and probably a lot more like mine, are the type of children that do well, but don’t really push themselves. It is hard to be a superstar, when you are competing with 1400 other kids at your school. It is much easier to do enough to get by, get that B+ instead of an A-. Leadership roles are ultra competitive, as are sports. Even if you are lucky enough to get on a team, it doesn’t mean you will actually play much.

Boarding school offers smaller classes, individual teacher attention, and diversity of athletics, artistic programs, and student population. Typically, the campus is gorgeous, with beautiful, state-of-the-art facilities. The majority of the faculty has advanced degrees, and having that teacher on campus, sharing meals, being a dorm parent, coaching the EC’s, can be a very rewarding relationship. More importantly, the experience of “living on your own”, making decisions by yourself, making friends with people from all over the world, can be life changing. Many schools provide this type of opportunity. Unfortunately, only the top 15 or so are usually mentioned.

Also, for what it’s worth, in my opinion, every school becomes a “reach” if you are requesting financial aid.

Linda S

Great post Jenny!
While our local high school isn't as good as yours, our son would coast, just get by, etc. They COULD challenge him...it's just if he would make the right choices.
He needs exactly what you said - the COMMUNITY. Which is how we are judging schools. The type of community feeling we got. They will ALL provide a challenging academic and athletic enviroment for him, it's what ELSE and how they do it that will ultimately matter for him.