Cheater - Page 2

PrincipalV · 08-21-2009, 02:03 PM

I never said (though I may have implied, from your posts) that you were dumb. Regardless, I can tell you how to help your friend (or try to) but you can't call me judgmental. I am basing my opinion purely on my own experience (or lack thereof).

1. Chances are he will do it anyway, even if he tells you he won't... If you cannot accept this then do not even go on with the endeavor of helping him. In the end he sends the apps in, directly, not through a proxy (you). He can do whatever the hell he wants and still lie to you. I am not saying he will do it, but if you cannot accept that odds are he will it is pointless for you to continue.

2. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". "What goes around comes around". Whatever saying you want to apply... It's gonna bite him in the ass much harder next time, with an ordeal worse than getting rejected to high schools.

3. Tell him to ask himself if he thinks what he is doing is right, chances are he will say no (but still do it anyway).

4. Finally tell him that you think (you seem to) that he can get in without lying (I honestly don't think that, sorry... you do, though, and that's what counts) and he would feel much better (he would, trust me).

5. Just hope for the best.

helpme13 · 08-21-2009, 02:11 PM

Why don't you think he could get in? He gets awesome grades, great recommendations, his essay was pretty good, and he does 4 clubs and community service. I think if he was himself he could get in. I won't help him with his apps but I will still be his friend.

PrincipalV · 08-21-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

I think if he was himself he could get in.

The fact remains that he is not himself. The schools that he has his eye on has thousands of kids with grades like he does, being dishonest is certainly not something they would want.

If they figured out that he was lying they would not even give him a second chance. Don't even ask how they would know.

asiankid29 · 08-21-2009, 02:17 PM

Well, you have to remember, helpme13, that there are hundreds of other applicants who have the same - or even better - stats as your friend. The decision the admissions committee makes doesn't solely depend on grades, recommendations or essays. They are looking for someone different, someone who stands out (in a good way).

helpme13 · 08-21-2009, 02:21 PM

Yeah I know, I'm trying to convince him not to do it. I just don't him to get in because he lied and then get kicked out because he lied. How would they know? Would they contact coaches? Look him up on google? Call the school? I really don't know any other way and the sad thing is his parents know and they say that its okay sometimes you need to lie to get where you want or something close to that.

PrincipalV · 08-21-2009, 09:40 PM

That sounds like a profoundly dysfunctional family to me. No wonder he's turned into such a mess. Regardless, even if they don't find out, all the kids at Exeter and so forth will be epochs more mature (academically and socially) than him. He wouldn't have fun being the odd one out.

I have seen plenty of liars. Most get what they want... Then suddenly they get bitten in the ass because of their lie with a price million times worse.

GemmaV · 08-21-2009, 10:16 PM

helpme13: Having multiple years of participation in sports/clubs--whether it's a lie or not--is not the most impressive, and is certainly not the most important, part of a student's application. One must understand that the VAST MAJORITY of applicants to places like Exeter and Andover have the credentials you mentioned: great grades, very good recommendations, solid extracurriculars, etc. Trust me, admission officers are very good at sniffing out liars. And even if they don't catch him in a lie in the interview, there are other ways to tell.

PrincipalV · 08-21-2009, 10:22 PM

Sports was a big part of my Exeter interview last year, and trust me I could not have kept a lie that long without making it clear that I am a bad liar. Beyond that it's the fact that he lied and not the degree of his lie that will keep him out.

It's his choice, but if he keeps asking himself "how will they tell?" then he is not thinking in the right way.

helpme13 · 08-22-2009, 03:18 PM

What do you thing is the most important part to get admission...I personally say the application packet (essays and short answers).

Sarum · 08-22-2009, 04:54 PM

Obama's dad got an MA at Harvard, so tell me how he got into Harvard Law School with a "C" average at Columbia? Nepotism helps PV and always will.

harvardlawviolin · 08-22-2009, 04:57 PM

I wouldn't worry. The Administrations will find out, either now or later, and if they find out later, even after he graduates, his degree will be taken away. It is serious stuff. I would try to convince him not to do it. I seriously read on many different college websites what they will do, and it was things like kicking you out of college. And if your friend goes on to get a bachelors or PhD, and they find out after that, the PhD is gone, as well as the bachelors. Besides, the college consults with the school to make sure it is all true.

PrincipalV · 08-23-2009, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Obama's dad got an MA at Harvard, so tell me how he got into Harvard Law School with a "C" average at Columbia? Nepotism helps PV and always will.

I don't get your point... Obama graduated Cum Laude and what not...

Quote:

I wouldn't worry. The Administrations will find out, either now or later, and if they find out later, even after he graduates, his degree will be taken away. It is serious stuff. I would try to convince him not to do it. I seriously read on many different college websites what they will do, and it was things like kicking you out of college. And if your friend goes on to get a bachelors or PhD, and they find out after that, the PhD is gone, as well as the bachelors. Besides, the college consults with the school to make sure it is all true.

Exactly... Maybe not that bad, but something like that, yes. Imagine getting expelled senior year...

Sarum · 08-23-2009, 02:30 PM

"Obama graduated Cum Laude and what not."

Not from Columbia he didn't

PrincipalV · 08-23-2009, 09:55 PM

Probably not... He got into Harvard and kicked ass, though... I guess if his presidency depended on what he learned in Columbia I would be more concerned. Moreover, he got into Harvard with stats from Columbia (and AA, I guess).

cc23 · 08-24-2009, 02:10 PM

That is a terrible, terrible idea. Tell him that is not an option.
First of all, that shows a SERIOUS lack of honesty and integrity.
Second of all, he could get caught in the process (what if his interviewer asks him specific questions about football? What's he going to say?)
Third and most importantly, suppose he does get in. The schools are going to expect a soccer/football/track star, which he won't be. He'll be totally humiliated and the school will be upset.