Weatherby

Yes, pity those pugnacious little punks ruining the lives of the meek, weak, and those who should have been fagging to their every whim in another time and place.

Charger78

One more post for this . . . I can see that my last was really amplifying on 7Dad's at #8, regarding "culture" as opposed to response, so credit due.

"Meanness" has degrees and kinds -- and it is (sometimes far) more prevalent in both degree and kind at some schools rather than others because 1. kids are not going to try, and will revert to the "average" of meanness, unless 2. the school makes a concerted effort to raise expectations. Especially, look at the frequency and content of all-school assemblies and meetings, or chapels; look at small-group encounters or classes that are planned and sometimes described in curriculum guides. (Am sure that posters on walls extolling virtues are insufficient in high school, even if more effective in middle.) Kids respond to expectations and embrace the "culture" that they walk into. They respond to accountability for their actions. Larger schools (certainly more than 600 or so) need to work at it even more than smaller ones because their sheer size presents more likelihood and opportunity, imho.

ChoatieMom

Hmmm. Let’s not forget those who build empires on mean lists—Exeter/Harvard grad Mark Zuckerberg got his start by creating a Hot or Not type site called FaceMash where he posted photos from Harvard's female population for the university’s male community to rate. Granted, that’s not the point of FaceBook, but I believe FaceMash was a form of cyber bullying and speaks to the character of its founder. I wonder if either Exeter or Harvard has second thoughts about this alum? Perhaps they should have kept him busier.

And, of course, as others have mentioned, bad behavior is not limited to kids. This was in the news yesterday, although Andover dismissed the doctor last year:

Richard Keller, Doctor Charged With Child Porn, Used Philips Academy Computer For Adult Porn, Headmaster Says

It seems Andover was beset by more than one teachable moment last year but, in both cases, the school took swift and appropriate action. I don’t see, practically, what the school could have done to prevent either incident. Unfortunately, such things are happening everywhere. You only hope that your school is living by the principles posted above the gates and being guided by those principles when faced with unexpected and unpredictable events.

PrepQWill

Just to follow up on that, did the school have any awareness of what was happening? Do they do maintenance on all computers to make sure this doesn't happen?

I think that was everyone needs to remember is that these students are only human. Like mentioned before, this happens everywhere in schools today. Personally, I've seen quite a few of these lists at my current school. I believe that the student(s) who made the list was being rash.

Keep in mind, Mark Zuckerberg created FaceMash while he was drunk.

Momof7thgrader

People in NJ/greater NYC area might remember the Millburn HS "slut list" scandal of a few years ago. There was actually a tradition of senior girls writing this list (similar sounding to the Andover list) about a select group of freshman girls. It made local and national news. Millburn is one of the top public high schools in the state and the fact of the matter was that the administration had been aware of this list for years and not done much, beyond wrist slaps, about it until a few freshmen parents went public. The senior girls were athletes, popular and, I'm quite sure, considered nice girls by all the adults that knew them.

I think culture definitely plays a part. No one in the area was surprised about what happened at Millburn HS, it reflected a certain subset of the population. Andover seems to have handled the situation swiftly.

I can only imagine the distress of those kids who saw the list and their own names. As a parent, I doubt any reaction would be sufficient.

Momof7thgrader

I was referring the the "list" incident. Reading that story about Dr. Keller made my stomach turn. It's rather shocking he wasn't let go after the first or at least second incident.

parkermom

Oh wow, I just read the letter from Andover regarding Dr. Keller and I am SHOCKED that he was only recently fired, yet his misconduct has spanned years! I had no idea about any of this. We had never looked much into Andover other than touring it last year, during which we immediately concluded it wasn't the school for our daughter and never considered it again. Upon reading this explanation from the school regarding Dr. Keller (which they seem to find perfectly acceptable) I am literally feeling sick. IF I were a current Andover parent I would feel very angry and uneasy about all of this.

SevenDad

A quick note that I intended this thread to focus on the "list" incident (from last spring) and not the situation involving Dr. Keller.

Weatherby

10+ years to sack Keller?

This is relevant to the thread in my view.

SevenDad

@Weatherby: I just don't want this thread to become a target for trolls (present company excluded) who have exactly 1 post to their screenname and it happens to be about some controversial incident/scandal at a specific school.

ChoatieMom

Sorry to bring up the Keller story, but it was in the spirit of bad behavior by anyone on campus and how a school handles it. It looks like Andover viewed each of the early incidents independently, they were several years apart and not related to child porn, and when they saw a clear pattern of behavior against their principles, they acted. Not sure I'd be "sick" about it as it does not appear that any children at Andover were harmed. Of course, there may be more to the story but, on the surface, with just the facts presented, I'd say Andover acted appropriately.

But I do agree that this story will probably take on a sad life of its own, so I'm sorry about muddying the discussion here.

parkermom

Well, the whole story does make my stomach turn. And I do feel that this is a very relevant topic and closely linked to the idea of "school culture" and how swiftly a school reacts to inappropriate behavior by either students or staff.

There WERE children harmed in the making of thousands of videos of child pornography (of which Keller is alleged to have purchased hundreds for himself..some sent directly to campus). The fact that these child victims were not Andover students does not put me at ease in the least! These are extremely serious allegations and Keller could go to prison for a very long time.

Of course, none of this is Andover's fault and I am not suggesting that the school knew about the child pornography; however, the school was alerted to several warning signs regarding this man over 12 years ago. So, that does beg the question: at what point should a school act? How many times should a school "view these incidents independently"?

Personally, I want the boarding school my child attends to have a zero tolerance policy regarding inappropriate sexual behavior by staff or faculty. I don't know if they do, but I am going to inquire.

andover2016

Now that I am a student at Andover (just finishing my second week) I think I can say a bit more about the atmosphere between students (girls especially) here. I think kids make friends much faster here than at non boarding schools, since we spend literally all day together you start making close friends within the first few weeks. Some of the dorms have a few close knit cliques forming, just because of proximity I think. Here everyone had to make completely new friends in a strange place and when that happens friendships become more intense, because these friends are basically a new family. It can probably feel very stressful to be surrounded by people you don't know if you've had the same friends your whole life. This is what I think causes some very unusual actions by girls who are usually very nice people, even months after school had begun.

dodgersmom

I appreciate the optimism reflected in this young person's view, but am concerned by his or her failure to recognize the seriousness of this kind of bullying. It is wonderful that this student has this kind of trust in his or her new community . . . but I hope that loyalty will not hinder that student's ability to recognize (and potentially to report) conduct that threatens that community.