mzhang23

As a junior at Princeton with quite a bit of knowledge about the Princeton scene, I have to say everything described in the article is certainly true. Nearly all the clubs, bicker or sign-in, have certain cliques that feed into them. In the case of a club like Ivy, it's often wealth and looks.

That said, the article certainly only highlights the negative aspects of the Princeton social scene and doesn't really look at how relatively open it really is. Getting passes is easier than getting candy, and while obtaining membership may be difficult in some clubs, it's never too hard to go there on weekends to hang out if you want. Then there are the sign-in clubs - always open, always welcoming.

It also doesn't draw a comparison with greek scenes at other schools, where such organizations function on connections and affilitations as well.

lspf72

The article said that 3/4's of the studnets join eating clubs. For those who don't, are there regular meal plan options in dining halls?

Alumother

Yes. Four-year residential colleges, independents with kitchens in their rooms, cooking co-ops, and now even those who belong to an eating club can eat 2 free meals/week in the dining halls.

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/arc...ws/17492.shtml

hedoya

The main thing the article about eating clubs proves is that there is too much drinking at Princeton. Every year we graduate too many alcoholics this is hardly something to be proud of and I do not believe this excessive drinking is necessary. It remains a huge disappointment to me- it seems to get worse every year because everyone is in denial over it. Especially the parents of the kids!

Brown man1987

the main point of the article is not at all to emphasize the drinking at princeton, but rather, the supposed elite nature of its eating clubs

hedoya

"elitism" huh? if you went to the eating clubs or read between the lines you wouldnt think that lol. Perhaps you should check out the picture shown with the article..elitist= drinking. You have to be totally whacked to be walking around naked with a gift wrapped box on SNL style instead of a fig leaf hahaha. And whether you want to admit it or not there is toooo much drinking goin on.

PtonGrad2000

Brown man, “supposed” is a good choice of words.

The best review of Princeton’s eating clubs in comparison with Harvard’s final clubs and Yale’s secret societies comes from a series of articles done by the Yale Daily News whose reporters visited the three campuses and had this to say: “In comparison to Harvard's final clubs or Yale's secret societies, Princeton's eating clubs are in many ways less exclusive. Even the selective bicker clubs have open application; any student can go through the bicker process. Neither final clubs nor secret societies accept applications; students are simply "tapped" for membership, or at Harvard, "punched."

http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/17212 = on Princeton’s Eating Clubs
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/17230 = on Harvard’s Final Clubs
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/17253 = on Yale’s Secret Societies

The criticism of the eating clubs is woefully outdated and the recent newspaper article was clearly sensationalized. Fifty years ago, the clubs were far more exclusionary. Today, half of the clubs are simple “sign-in” clubs that any junior can join through a random selection process based on the number of available spaces. The other clubs have a student-run selection process but it is no more elitist than similar processes at Yale’s secret societies or at Harvard’s final clubs. The difference between the eating clubs and these social organizations at the other schools is that almost all parties at all of the eating clubs are open to students across campus whether or not they belong to that club. The parties vary in quality but typically they’re all a good deal of fun. The cost of belonging to an eating club is only very slightly more than a meal plan at the University for which it substitutes and additional financial aid is now available to students so that those who need it are able to pay this additional cost.

It seems to me that the eating clubs as a whole are the exact opposite of ‘elite’. If they are meant to be exclusive and vehicles for social stratification, they are doing a very poor job indeed. In fact, nearly 3/4's of all Princeton juniors and seniors (plus a large percentage of the sophomores during their spring semester) belong to the clubs. Furthermore, students of all classes tend to show up at the open parties (though drinking age limits are observed). It’s difficult to see how a phenomenon so widespread and open to anyone who wishes to participate can be said to be ‘elite’. On the contrary, I would say that it is clear that they are rather 'common'. They're also a lot of fun for most students. The facilities are beautiful and they offer a full range of activities including community service. For those who do not wish to participate as full members, there are also social memberships which are much less expensive and even those juniors and seniors who have no formal connection with the clubs whatsoever often show up at the parties.

I have some ambivalent feelings about the clubs and it is certainly true that a couple of them could be said to have an air of exclusivity (Ivy is like this). I was not a member of any of them, but I attended plenty of parties and generally enjoyed them. Calling them elitist, however, is a little like calling membership in the YMCA elitist. It just doesn’t make sense. There are far too many members and it’s far too easy to participate for such a label to be justified. Also, despite the sensationalist stories in the newspaper article, most parties at the clubs are pretty low key affairs and everyone is wearing clothes!

The composition of the Princeton undergraduate student body is also decidedly different from the stereotypes typically offered. Here are a couple of examples.

Class of 2009 % of Students on Financial Aid (U.S. News & World Report)

55% Princeton
52% Harvard
45% Yale
43% Stanford

Class of 2010 % of Students From Public Schools

61% Princeton
54.4% Yale

(http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/a...n=newsreleases)
(http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/17694)

Finally, hedoya, I agree with you that there is too much drinking among undergraduates but this is certainly not unique to Princeton. All college campuses have this problem. It comes with the age group and the new found freedom most undergraduates are experiencing. To Princeton’s credit, it has not ignored this issue as have many universities and has, in fact, devoted significant administrative resources to educating students about the dangers.

hedoya

/\ thank you I was beginning to think all of my friends were stumbling around on weekends due to a mysterious ailment. By the way excellent presentation above. Glad you just happen to have that available LOL. Not sure if anyone but the parents really care how " exclusive" the clubs are though once you are in you are in.

Alumother

Princeton's binge drinking percentage, available by searching on www.princeton.edu, is actually somewhat below the national average.

hedoya

Binge drinking you may be correct but I said alcoholism and how do you gather stats on that? Chocolate Martinis anyone? Its called denial. The picture in the article says a thousand words. Most everyone here thought it was pretty funny by the way.

Alumother

Here is where?

Consolation

Of the many people I've known who went to Yale and Harvard over a period of several decades, including various family members of mine and family members of friends, several were members of Porcellian and Skull & Bones. Another couple were punched, but declined to participate. Every single one of them was wealthy, well-connected, and a graduate of a well-known prep school. Not a single one of the (more numerous) public school graduates were ever invited to join, to my knowledge. Compared to that, the Princeton eating clubs seem comparatively egalitarian. On the other hand, it seems that the clubs/societies at Yale and Harvard have almost no effect on the rest of the student body.

amnesia

Welcome to Princeton.

You know there are frats much more exclusive than our party scene? Half our scene is non-exclusive.

In any case, yes, you may be descended by some billionaire... but, sorry people, it's the 21st century and people in their garage can become the next billionare. in fact, most ppl are self made than inherited... with estate tax mounting, it's pretty clear that what you can do is much more important than just "tagging along" .. yea, you can make 1 million in your life with connections, but there's also billions to be made, and that money is reserved for the entrepreneurs.

now, of course, connections >> anything

JohnDoe

I'm a rising soph, so I guess I have the fresh, "independent" view of the eating clubs:

Like people said, 5 are sign-in, and so are open to everyone. You don't need passes, just your ID, and sign-in parties are, in my opinion, lots of fun, though some people slight them because they aren't as exclusive.

To get into the other five bicker clubs, you need passes, but as mentioned, they're extremely easy to get, members sometimes give them out outside the club. However, to be totally honest, there are certain cliques you need to be in to fully enjoy certain clubs. Cottage is almost entirely football players, members of one fraternity, and sorority girls. Ivy has plenty of very wealthy members. Tiger Inn, the most relaxed of the "big three," has many water polo and wrestling team members, though it's really diverse in terms of what connections people have.

Again, it's easy to go out to Prospect, go into Cottage without being in a fraternity or a certain sports team, and enjoy one's self, but you won't know nearly as many people in the club, because you don't have the advantage of seeing them in your daily life. As a result, unaffiliated people in Cottage or Ivy may feel marginalized. I'm not implying that the club members themselves try to ostracize the unaffiliated partygoers, but it's a phenom that just happens.

One thing that I've been starting to see at Pton, more distinctly than divisions based on sports teams, fraternities, or bank statements, is racial self-segregation. I hope I'm not the only one who's noticed, but most Black students are in Quad, Terrace, and Cap on a typical Saturday night. Most asian students are in Colonial, and meanwhile, Ivy and Cottage are filled almost exclusively with White students. I honestly don't think any of the clubs are racist (students are picked on their activities more than their skin color, Black football players still get into Cottage), but there's a distinct sense that certain parties don't reflect the diversity of the school. I've been in Cottage and been the only Black person in the club (maybe there was one somewhere, but definitely not in the 40 or so people in the basement).

Granted, I'm in a fraternity, so I shouldn't have too much to worry about, haha.

posterX

The financial aid numbers above are highly misleading because they only give figures for students receiving direct grants (and not the actual amount of those grants), and therefore do not give you the entire picture. Columbia and Yale are by far the most socioeconomically diverse Ivies, overall.

The problem with the eating clubs at Princeton is that campus social life revolves around them. They involve students from all four years and dominate the "party" scene. That makes the social scene at Princeton totally exclusive: in my experience, the eating clubs are just as (if not more) snobby, segregated and exclusive as anyone might fear. Be prepared for that. At Yale, in contrast, the secret societies are limited to a handful of seniors who spend Thursday and Sunday nights having dinner together. They purposefully try to get a diverse group of 10-15 kids together, and invite non-members to their parties, as opposed to the eating clubs, where it is much more about status and exclusivity. The secret societies at Yale also don't operate on Friday or Saturdays, and since they only involve seniors, their overall impact on campus social life is practically nonexistent. As a result of the lack of eating clubs, as well as the residential college system (the only randomly assigned, comprehensive 4-year college system in the Ivies), Yale is much less segregated, so you find that many different groups are constantly interacting with each other. Harvard is in-between the two in terms of exclusivity because the finals clubs involve younger students (which makes them notoriously exclusive for freshmen males (!); however, Harvard is large enough that, luckily, the campus social life does not *completely* revolve around them and the campus is therefore less segregated. But don't take my word for any of the above - visit each school for 2-3 days each, including a weekend day, sit in on classes and dining halls, and talk to as many students/faculty as possible. That's the only way you'll really get a sense of what the culture of each school is like. I think if you really do this level of research on all three, you'll agree with my characterizations above.