IntlDad

My S, an international student, has been accepted to Princeton, Yale, MIT, Caltech, Duke, Williams and Amherst. He has been given extremely generous financial aid everywhere, with slight variations in EFC and work-study amounts. Aid-wise, given those variations, Y>P>A>M>W>D>C, but we hope that eventually the amount of financial aid will not be a constraint in his final choice.

Now, as much as he is overjoyed by these acceptances, he is also completelyconfused at the moment, not only with regard to where he wants to go, but also with regard to what he wants to major in. Being an international, he cannot visit any campus, and therefore has to make a decision based on secondhand information and – ultimately – his own instinct.

As far as I understand, this is what he is about:
ACADEMICS: He loves Math and Physics (maybe Math a little more than Physics), likes Chem a lot less, and almost hates Bio. Of course he knows that these prior preferences may change surprisingly and dramatically at any of these schools. His stated preference in the apps was for a Math major, but he is willing to switch to Physics if his interests take that turn. The idea of a double major in Math + Physics is attractive to him, but then it isn’t allowed at Princeton, requires a superhuman effort at Caltech, and, though allowed in the other places, is probably not a particularly good idea.

Love of Math probably warrants a toss-up between Princeton and MIT. Our idea is that each year only about 12-15 people major in Math at P, while many more do so at M. Both programs will swarm with IMO and USAMO champs, while he has only made it to our country’s final pre-IMO camp twice without going through to IMO (he has a shot this year, though). For all his love of Math, we don’t know if he will be good enough to do well in a Math program of Princeton/MIT caliber.

EC: He absolutely loves creative writing, reading and music (plays instrument). Also absolutely loves puzzles and riddles and crosswords. Is fascinated by Princeton’s Creative Writing, Music and Humanities programs. Is equally fascinated by MIT’s mystery hunt, brass rat designing contest, and the fun stuff that comes out from its website and blogs.

PERSONAL: Normal guy with an open mind and a great sense of humor. Loves fun and wisecracking and hanging out with friends. Loves MIT’s welcoming and collaborative spirit and its nerdy, quirky humor. But also knows that Princeton’s “polo-wearing preppiness” is a myth, and that he can be happy there too. In short, confusion all around.

But definitely, up to now, not a piddling, hands-on type. Has no intention to study Engineering. Much more comfortable fancying himself as a theroretical Math/Physics person with research and graduate school in mind.

In short, it all basically boils down to MIT or Princeton, though Caltech, Yale and Duke are not far behind.

This is going to be one of the most important decisions of his life, and you can probably guess the uncertainty surrounding the decision from the many qualifiers (“probably”, etc.) I am using in this post. Those of you in similar dilemmas, and those of you with the wisdom of experience – please could you help him out in this one?

cookiemom

My S is currently a junior math major at Princeton. He applied there early, but MIT was one of his top choices if he didn't get into Princeton. He has also taken a lot of physics classes at Princeton - both departments are first rate. He chose Princeton because he thought it would be a better undergraduate experience overall. He plans to apply to MIT for grad school. Keep in mind that all of these schools discourage their undergraduates from applying to their grad programs - they want them all to go somewhere else.

You don't have to be great at math competitions to do well at Princeton - you just have to be great at math. Th current junior class has over 30 math majors. S thinks there are two reasons for the increase - they now have more applied math classes and S has been talking up the math department. The faculty to student ratio in the math department is about 2:1 so you get lots of individual attention. The math department hosts teas every afternoon in the Common Room where faculty, grad students and undergraduates get together to socialize and talk math. S said one day this week they were hosting the new grad students for next year and they had lots of great food.

The other factor is that every department at Princeton is strong. My S has had incredible professors in many different departments. He's loved his classes in religion, music, psychology and philosophy.

I am quite familiar with both campuses. MIT is an urban campus - lots of concrete, steel and glass and not a lot of green. The campus does have a "cool" feel to it and the views of the Charles River are stunning. Princeton is a gorgeous contained campus with lots of Gothic architecture. The food is great and the campus has a lot of spirit. The student productions are very well attended and there are lots of parties on campus. If you want some big city life, New York is about 90 minutes away by train which stops right on campus.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

IntlDad

Thanks lot cookiemom - that's a most detailed and helpful response. I hope if my son goes to Princeton eventually, he will get to meet your son. Do you think Princeton's enhanced writing requirements (two juinor papers, one senior thesis) help graduate school applications? Also, out of curiosity, is your son doing a certificate course? What would be some of the more common certificate course options for Princeton Math majors? If somebody with a Princeton Math/Physics degree wants to spend a year working in the industry and earning some money for graduate school, which certificate courses will be the most marketable?

Alumother

Most marketable certificates? For a math major? I'm betting ORFE - financial engineering. Of course, that's not in the industry per se if you mean the technical industry....Cookiemom?

Weasel8488

ORF is a major, not a certificate, so the finance certificate would be a better bet. Most top schools give you a good deal of funding for grad school, so you might not even need to go this route.

cookiemom

My understanding is that Princeton grads do very well getting into grad school, and yes, the junior and senior research papers do help. S is currently working with two very famous professors. He's writing a math textbook with one and doing an independent research project with another who has already mentored two Field's medalists.

S is not doing any certificates, although physics and economics are some of the more common ones for math majors. Your S needn't worry about job opportunities if he wants to work before going to grad school. S has been flooded with emails from lots of companies inviting him to interview with them for summer internships. Princeton math majors are very much in demand on Wall Street. S has been told that he could make lots of money if he wants to work for a couple of years before grad school.

By the way my S is also a varsity athlete so he spends a lot of time on his sport. He's had to reschedule final exams to work around his competition schedule and all of the professors have been great about it.

Also, I don't know what country you're from but a significant percentage of the math majors at Princeton are international students. There is a particularly large group from Romania.

classof09

I think I know your son.
Sorry for this random post btw.

1of42

Marketable certificates? Depends on what your son is looking for. As a math major, he could almost certainly get a certificate in applied and computational mathematics (http://www.pacm.princeton.edu/ugrad/overview.shtml) with minimal extra work, and if interested in finance or economics there is a Finance certificate (http://www.princeton.edu/~bcf/certificate.htm), or in engineering management systems (http://orfe.princeton.edu/ems/). All can be marketable if your son wants to work in such areas (quantitative investments are a good example of employers who love strong math majors with some finance). If just looking at grad school for math, I'd say that the ACM certificate would be useful and the others not quite so much.

IntlDad

Thanks a lot everybody for your very helpful comments. They help to clear up much of the confusion that I was talking about.