randombetch

Do you know any basic statistics? Asians have a statistically significant higher SAT score than any other ethnic group and are admitted at a statistically significant lower rate than any other ethnic group. You think that this is not a legitimate cause for suspicion of discrimination? Why is that?

Oh yes, whining about threads in which Asians state that they feel discriminated against is much better. Good for you for being the real man about it.

mam1959

speedo - you are expressing yourself at bit coarsely, but I think you are on the mark when discussing admissions at Princeton. It is so competitive that people who are admitted there are qualified (a relativistic term, I'll admit) in any sense.

But the Asian discrimination problem is both real and wrong at, let's say, UCLA and Cal Berkeley. Given the treatment of Asians in this country, and particularly in California, I can't agree in that context that their complaints are whining. And I think it is absolutely shameful that the University of California discriminates against Asians in favor of other racial groups. This does not reflect in any way the promise that the civil rights era offered. And while generalizations in and of themselves may not be probative, this is a problem that must be taken the to left side of the political spectrum, for they are the ones implementing and supporting these discriminatory policies in California.

speedo

We have a young person here cc who is contemplating lying about his ethnicity because he has heard that Pton discriminates against Asians. It has become such a common complaint, pretty much an accepted truth here on cc (and an effective way to generate traffic for the site) yet there is no proven case of any discrimination at Pton. These kinds of rumors disparage a fine university and may impact the decisions of fine Asian students to apply there. Mis-information needs to be challenged and the posters who spread these rumors need to be seen for who they are, losers, resentful over rejection. There is absolute no reason why a qualified Asian student should feel uneasy about applying to Pton. He or she will have the same small chance as most other applicants.

randombetch

^Alright, I agree with that.

You're saying that Asians are given an advantage at the UC's? Seriously? UCSD does their entire admissions process by assigning scores holistically and no where in there does being Asian garner you extra points. UCLA and Berkeley are just letting in whoever has the best combination of scores, GPA, extracurricular activities, and background. Why the hell would they favor an overrepresented minority? I really hope you're not as completely hollow headed as you sound.

Techy233

These schools have a large percentage of Asians. UCLA is 40% Asian! Asians are the largest represented race at UCLA. Cacausian comes close at 35%. URMS are NOT taking Asians spots at these top schools.

100% of those at UCSD are in the top 10% of their class. I fail to see how Asians are disadvantaged.

Techy233

Unless, of course, the implication here is that EVERY Asian that applies to top UC/top schools are better than EVERY URM that applies.

monstor344

If anything, these numbers CORROBORATE the existence of racial affirmative action at top private schools. UCLA is one of the few top schools that is prohibited from practicing racial affirmative action, and their Asian population percentage is more than double the percentages at top privates that practice racial AA.

monstor344

Obviously they are far from the same level of severity. In that sense, they aren't comparable. But racial affirmative action and racial segregation are both based off the same premise: that races should not be treated equally. It's just harder to see with racial affirmative action because its purpose is often distorted and unclear.

monstor344

Both you and the OP are wrong; there is nothing dishonest about withholding information about one's own race.

Techy233

That contradicts what you were just saying. Do you recommend that every top school be populated by more than 50, 60, 70% Asian? I do believe the goal of racial diversity and representation is a legitimate governmental {and private} goal. I do think that the entire AA thing has become completely overblown and that universities should reexplain their policies to the public. I know an Asian that was accepted to Cornell with a 2050 SAT. I know a black girl rejected from C with a 2100. I am not suggesting that there are not hints of bigotry in the process, {I did not take advantage of AA myself} but I do think your implications are stupid. USC is a top private -- 30% Asian. Columbia, 20%. Even schools such at Dartmouth, where the Asian population is only 15%, more than half the class is white. I know quite a few Hispanics/blacks that just use the system to their advantage, and actually have very little URM in them.

It is offensive for you to think that every Asian that applies deserves a spot at top colleges. Do you realize how very few URM are have the grades/scores/ECs to get into these universities? Not many. The fact that some top schools have as much as 15% URM isn't a cause for alarm, where the Asian representation exceeds 20, 30, 40% at many, many, others. MOST schools are mostly white and Asian. Low-tier schools are mostly black and Hispanic. Are you saying that's where they all belong?

Because if that's not what you're saying, I simply don't get it.

randombetch

I (nor anyone in this thread) never said Asians are disadvantaged at UC's (which is why those numbers are so high). And I agree, these numbers corroborate the fact that Asians are disadvantaged at top schools.

If you don't think so, you're just completely incompetent when it comes to basic statistics.

"African-American applicants with SAT scores of 1150 had the same chances of being accepted as white applicants with 1460s and Asian applicants with perfect 1600s."

Being Asian is the equivalent of being white with -140 points on the SAT. If having subtracting 140 points on the SAT is a disadvantage, then so is being Asian.

Techy233

I did not address it correctly: " But the Asian discrimination problem is both real and wrong at, let's say, UCLA and Cal Berkeley. Given the treatment of Asians in this country, and particularly in California, I can't agree in that context that their complaints are whining. And I think it is absolutely shameful that the University of California discriminates against Asians in favor of other racial groups."

I am not arguing statistics with you. The mere fact that so many Asians dominate in population at top schools supports the claim that they are NOT disadvantaged. If most top schools have less than 5% Hispanic/black population -- what makes you think that blacks/Hispanics are taking Asians' spots?

randombetch

^OHHhh, I guess I misread that post (thought he was saying Asians are given an advantage at UC's). Yeah I agree with you about that guy's post (UC's don't discriminate against Asians in any way).

I think top schools are doing a good job of balancing diversity with having an academically powerful student body. I don't think that Asians "dominate in population" at top schools though (like 15-17% at HYP?).

Saugus

Oh shut up. This is just blatant racism. You are calling me a loser for "whining" about a disadvantage, and yet you do not believe those who take advantage their race are losers. (Which they aren't, but definitely more so than those who apply with a disadvantage in the admissions process.)

@speedo and techy233

I'm immature? Grow up. If anybody feels entitled, it is URMs who had no URM disadvantage, as they are using something which had zero impact on their lives to make an impact on their application. It is essentially the same thing as boasting about being president of a club with 3 members.

Thank you, Captain Obvious, all applicants to Princeton are highly qualified, URM or not. That does not mean that one applicant should receive a large edge over another for something which is meaningless. That's called discrimination.

Jian Li's research showed that 80% of URM spots would be taken by Asians and whites if the University was race-blind. I'm not saying that that is entirely accurate, or would be a good thing, but it shows that there is patent racial favoritism occurring. Mam1959 has it backwards. UCs and UMICH do not discriminate, or if they do, it is only very slightly.

So ideally, an Asian population should be closer to 40-50% than 20%.

Techy, the URM population is small because very few qualified URMs applied. That doesn't mean that they are not taking the place of more qualified candidates.

The SAT score study is what I'm going by. Basically, being white is the standard level. Being a URM is an advantage by 310 SAT points, and being Asian is a disadvantage by 140 SAT points. (Out of 1600)

Techy, I'm glad that you were mature enough to not use your URM status since you did not feel that you were underprivileged. But I am not a whiner because I feel a little bit ticked off about an anti-Asian policy. I really am not so much an Asian as an American. I grew up in an environment where there were people of all races about me. I cannot claim that I am any one of them in particular except for my genetic make-up.

Speedo, I'm not trying to use my race to an advantage like people like you do. I'm trying to not have it against me as a disadvantage. I really hope that you are not a Democrat. People like you are a disgrace to real Democrats.

speedo

op, actually I wasn't referring to you, I assumed you were a genuine high level applicant to Pton, who was trying to resolve an issue before applying. After reading your post it turns out you have done some research and have in fact, already made up your mind that you are going to be discriminated against. Furthermore, after reading your post, you appear to be just another whiner, blaming others ahead of the actual decision for your potential failure. You're a self fulfilling prophecy - probably best off saving yourself or your parents the app fee.