monstor344

There's no self-fulfilling prophecy here, nor is OP whining, nor is OP blaming others getting in for his/her failure. It's just a statistical reality that Asians are disadvantaged when applying to top schools, and that it wouldn't be a bad idea for OP to omit revealing his ethnicity on his college apps.
A false assumption. Suppose, hypothetically, 40,000 job applicants are applying for 5,000 job positions. 38 thousand of the applicants have blue eyes, and 2 thousand of the applicants have green eyes. Before factoring in eye color, the employer committee evaluates an average score for the candidates for each group on a 1-10 scale, 10 being best. These ratings evaluate all reasonable factors, including both objective factors (test scores) and subjective factors (recommendations from previous employers, resumee, etc)***. The blue eyes group has an average rating of 7, the green eyes group has an average rating of 6, and the rating needed to qualify for the job is 5. However, after taking into account eye color and making decisions, the committee employs 4 thousand blue eye applicants and 1 thousand green eye applicants.

By your logic, the blue eye group faced no discrimination. After all, they clearly represented a larger quantity of the accepted, right? And besides, it's not as if any group were under the qualification bar.

I use this example as an exaggerated illustration but an illustration that elaborates my points nonetheless. Had eye color not been taken into account, and assuming the admissions committee based their decisions upon the ratings scale they used, it would not just be logical but statistically sound for the breakdown of the employed to look more like 4,800 blue eyed people and 200 green eyed people.

*** - See the data table provided at: News: Testing for 'Mismatch' - Inside Higher Ed . I want to make clear the point that college admission committees consider the subjective factors as well as the objective factors, and that I realize college admission is a holistic process based on more than test scores and GPA. But I would question anyone who considers factors outside of those provided in the data table as legitimate, in particular ethnicity, while at the same time claiming that racial discrimination does not exist in the college admissions process.

randombetch

monstor:

Discrimination is present in your example because there's no reason to accept one eye color over another (and doing so means that there was some partiality involved) except for a bias.

However, ethnicity is not the same as eye color because there is another motive behind choosing more of one ethnicity (URM) over another (ORM) other than straight up partiality.

Discrimination doesn't just mean that there's a difference in percentages, it means that someone was kept from getting admitted is because of a bias against his or her race. It's not that the adcoms don't like Asians - it's that they need to keep diversity in mind.

dis·crim·i·na·tion (d-skrm-nshn)
n.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice

monstor344

Well, that's the core of the debate, isn't it?
Interest in diversity is still a partiality. It is not a race-blind approach to evaluating applicants and thus it is still biased.

randombetch

Bias means you like one thing over another for no logical/practical reason. Diversity is a logical, practical reason.

monstor344

Slavery in America largely began for logical and practical reasons. It's the application of its rationale that made it biased, and similarly it's the means of achieving diversity at top schools that makes it racially prejudiced as well. Top schools could easily be achieving diversity without disadvantaging Asians against white applicants.

speedo

caution - we are now entering the next phase of entitled Asian ranting - bashing black folks and re-inventing history. Entitlement knows no limits.

jasonInNy

Just on the color of eyes,

Gray eyes are definitely the hottests.

sujinpark8

I'm Asian and I personally think AA has its pros and cons but those opinions aside I just wanted to say something that offended and disturbed me somewhat.
Speedo, you have no reason to start bashing asians like this. Your comment about the asian mothers being on their knees weeping and saying "he didn't get in" really offended me. I hope next time you decide to type something you think it through beforehand - your comments just make you look like an idiot.

zhouk00

Well, not to disparage the seriousness of the above conversation (some of the issues brought up are indeed still very much in need of good evaluation), but let me try to answer the original question. As a current senior at Princeton, I can tell you that the current freshman class had a huge increase in the number of Asians (although these were primarily from international applicants, SE Asians). I (just personal opinion, please no attacks!) think that they only begin to really consider ethnicity/income when it comes to distinguishing between two equally qualified candidates. And, having met a few of the people who will sit on the committee deciding your fate, I know that they try to be as fair as possible in this process. As an Asian from a high income bracket, I feel your pain because it very often does FEEL as if we are being discriminated against since this is a common opinion among Asian applicants. But, best of luck...it is a good thing to be a Tiger =)

Pizzagirl

It's unbelievable that people who are supposedly smart enough to get into Princeton don't understand that Princeton's decisions are not made on fully objective criteria - therefore, no matter how good anyone's stats are, no one is "guaranteed" a spot that then gets "taken away" by someone else. Only someone without any sophistication whatsoever would look at an Asian kid with a 2400 and a black kid with a 2100 and claim that the black kid "took the Asian kid's spot." No, nimwits, the Asian kid with a 2400 was never guaranteed a spot in Princeton in the first place. Because no one is. This isn't Asia where we line everyone up based on test scores and go down the list. Capische?

Saugus

^
Thank you captain obvious, nobody is guaranteed to get in.

Now why don't you think through what you just said and explain why a candidate with an inferior record is picked over one with a superior record?

speedo

so saugus if you haven't even applied how do you know that you will be rejected? Why not look on the bright side. Perhaps you have a stellar record and will have a better chance than most other apps. Or perhaps things will work out wonderfully and you will have a great college experience elsewhere. Why torture yourself prior to application over something you
can't control.

Saugus

^
I really don't know. I was originally just asking how much of a detriment to my record it would be and whether there was some way to omit my race.

Did you get in?

speedo

you apparently have already decided on the answer to your own question. Why did you bother to pose it?

Saugus

^
You're a bit slow, aren't you...