I'm agnostic. don't get me started on why I'm against organized religion. I will summarize my views by saying this: as intelligent as humans are, there are limits even to our knowledge, and one thing that we are incapable of knowing-that we will never know- is whether a "god" exists. I'm not so arrogant as to be sure that a certain god exists, nor am I so arrogant to claim that NO god exists. I have the humlity to admit that I don't know "God"
my fave quote was: "If men were angels, no government would be necessary" -james madison, federalist no. 51. HA I'm such a gov junkie
I'm not so arrogant as to be sure that a certain god exists, nor am I so arrogant to claim that NO god exists. I have the humility to admit that I don't know "God"
But keep in mind that atheism (as well as any other religious belief) is just that: a belief. It's not saying, "I know there is no God, and even if there was evidence to the contrary, I wouldn't believe it." It's usually saying, "I do not believe that God exists." For example, if someone asked you, "Is there a gorilla sitting next to you right now?" You'd probably say, "No, there isn't." You probably wouldn't say, "Well, there might be, but I don't know." However, what if someone proved that there actually was a gorilla sitting next to you? Then you'd change your previous statement.
At least, that's the way I look at atheism. From everything I've read and through my own common sense, I do not believe God exists and therefore I am an atheist. But if someone someday somehow truly proved he or she or it did exist, of course my belief would change. Agnosticism...well, personally, I think agnosticism means that one thinks there's about a 50/50 chance of God existing or not existing. For me, it'd be about 5/95.
I know that--technically--agnosticism is the belief that no one can prove or disprove the existence of God, but for that definition to be true, everyone would be agnostic because obviously no one has been able to prove or disprove it. Even if you asked the most hardcore theist, "Can you prove God exists?", he'd have to say "No" if he was being honest; there's no way around it, unless he said some BS like, "The proof of God is the feeling you get when you believe in him" or something along those lines. But even people who say that probably don't truly believe that that proves the existence of God, in the traditional sense of the word "proof".
Can we please not get into the religion discussion?
Well, I'd like to hear Stupefy's perspective on agnosticism, but until she gets back, let's talk about...hmmm...Who's your favorite fictional character?
I doubt it would turn into an argument. If my previous post seemed argumentative, I apologize; that wasn't my intention. I was just sharing my personal view of the two religious beliefs, offering a different perspective, and I'd like to have a discussion about it if Stupefy or anyone else would as well.
[Warning: rudeness]
This is a terrible thing to say, but I really can't stand religious debates. Or discussions at all actually, since discussions usually dissolve into debates... besides there's really nothing to argue about it, there's no reason we all can't just believe what we believe and leave it at that, right?
ANYWAY.
I thought you meant you hated physics and calc at first Anon, I was heartbroken!!! Hahahah, I've never seen so much physics hate, that's my favorite class right now, and only partially because my teacher is awesome. Calculus was a bit more of a struggle for me, series and sequences was not enjoyable.
LEAST FAVORITE SUBJECT: HISTORY. But I'm not taking a history class right now (thank goodness). Ooh, statistics is a little insufferable too... it's just sort of tedious.
It's not sad anymore, because you mentioned it. Hooray!
This is a terrible thing to say, but I really can't stand religious debates. Or discussions at all actually, since discussions usually dissolve into debates... besides there's really nothing to argue about it, there's no reason we all can't just believe what we believe and leave it at that, right?
I don't think anyone would be trying to force someone to believe or not believe something. Don't you know us regular Princeton hopefuls by now?? We're not that type! Productive discussions can certainly occur without unnecessary and hurtful arguing. Discussions and even debates (when they are done respectfully) are wonderful ways for us learn about other people's ideas and perspectives. I doubt anyone here thinks they are the ultimate experts on religion or that their views are the only valid ones; that's why it's interesting to hear different opinions and ideas.
Hey Eiffel- of course!
ok see I had a different view of that. If you talk about percentage believe/not believe (you said you were 5/95), yes I am definitely WAY more on the not believe side. maybe 90/10 for me. I go by the literal definition of agnosticism; that is, I DOUBT the existence of god but keep an open mind in regard to religion. to me, atheism is the ultimate declaration that one does NOT believe in god, and I think that viewpoint is too extreme for me. and in regard to this statement:
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Even if you asked the most hardcore theist, "Can you prove God exists?", he'd have to say "No" if he was being honest
I actually no quite a few atheists who are extremely stubborn in their belief, such that they have NO DOUBT in their mind that there is no god at all. so basically, we differ on our definitions of atheism/agnosticism but are views are ultimately the same. you are an open-minded atheist- I would consider you agnostic. I do think that most people who consider themselves atheist are extremely firm in their conviction
no we are NOT debating religion, eiffel and I are sharing our views on definitions. that's all. I've tried to convince hardcore religious people to at least glance at evolutionary theory (read: fact) but they ultimately refuse. impossible to persuade them
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I doubt it would turn into an argument. If my previous post seemed argumentative, I apologize; that wasn't my intention.
not at all! you were just welcoming discussion. i think religion is one of the richest philosophical topics to discuss. i personally love talking about it. I wrote my brown essay on my transition from a christian to an agnostic
