5888901

Hi i'm a junior in high school and am toying around with either a major in engineering (probably electric) or mathematics (possibly applied mathematics). So i guess my question is four fold;
1.) Can you give me any information on the quality (and difficulty) of a mathematics major at Purdue? Like how it compares to other schools, how employers might view it... ect.

2.) Do you have any opinions on whether a mathematics major is a worthy pursuit, or would it be less fulfilling than an engineering major? (just fyi i am not interested in teaching math)

3.) What is the difference between applied mathematics and pure mathematics? which one is better at Purdue, and how should i know which i'm more suited for?

4.) Would a math oriented major be to hard at Purdue considering i haven't been in honors math in highschool (because they started me out at geometry regular and were supposed to follow that same trend, so i was never in advanced, untill next year that is. my math oriented classes are as follows... Freshman: geometry. Sophomore: Algebra II. Junior: Pre-calc, Advanced Physics. Senior: AP Calc AB, AP Physics.

As you can see i have lots of questions but am very eager for a college education and really enjoy math. Any help would be very appreciated, thanks!

zaqwsx170

Well I'm just another high school senior, but please, PLEASE get an idea of what college math is like. College math is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like anything you've done before.

Real Analysis, Linear Algebra (no, this is not y=mx+b stuff...), abstract algebra, topology..


Everything is proof-based. PLEASE get an idea of what you're getting into before you do.

indojin

1) I can't tell you too much about the program compared to other schools. On either count. But what I can tell you is that employers are generally willing to risk hiring a Purdue student when it comes to almost anything quantitative. This isn't necessarily true for investment banks and consulting companies and what not because they are more the ivy league kinds.

2) I think that getting a math major in itself is very fulfilling. Of course, this is heavily courseload-dependent. (There are plans of study you can follow without doing too much math.) Electrical engineering is also rather tough - definitely the toughest of the engineerings. I think that is also a rather fulfilling major. If you mean fulfilling from a salary point of view(atleast initially), ANY engineering(especially electrical) is the way to go. However, math is the tougher of those two. The math majors have to think harder and smarter while the engineering majors do more grunt work, so to speak. They spend lots of time in labs and there is generally a larger time commitment. Another plus to doing the math major is the flexibility you get. The math requirements are not as much in terms of the sheer number of classes (it's about 10 to 12). That's a little less than a fourth of the requirements to graduate (There are also the core requirements which all the schools have but both science and engineering have these so it isn't really required in this "analysis" of sorts). This allows you to do a double major(or more) or just do a whole bunch of classes to compensate for the grades you lost doing math classes or to do stuff that you are interested in. (I came in with credits(which you will probably have) for a few classes and am triple majoring in math, cs, and statistics and minoring in economics and philosophy). The engineers don't have this luxury. Most of their coursework is required for the engineering degree and they have trouble doing even just one minor. However, the science majors are probably tougher(thinking wise. EE is up there too). (I switched from engineering to science to do a little more thinking,to be able to take classes that i'd like, and to have a social life, if that sort of thing is important to you).
not all math majors will teach. i'm not. i'm going into finance after graduate school. as a matter of fact, most of us won't.

3)Pure math is highly theoretical and involves proofs. Proofs are tough. Period. Linear algebra is the easiest "math" course. It's the first course that teaches you to think like a mathematician. The calculuses don't. Pure math is more about showing why certain theorems hold true and methods of proving why they are true. Lots of the time it is highly abstract i.e. tough to understand. The courses you do involve more abstract topics like topology(which many think is THE toughest of math topics). Pure math deals with properties of numbers and the analysis of functions to prove things and using these proofs to prove more complicated things. Applied math (which i'm FAR more interested in) deals with more real world applications i.e. doesn't have too much to do with proving properties. It is, as the name suggests, the application of fairly advanced math to real life situations. However, real and complex analysis are required for both pure and applied math. (Applied math has its origins in pure math and analysis is a VERY important in applied math)Analysis courses and abstract algebra are generally the toughest of courses to deal with.
An undergrad doesn't really have the option of majoring in pure math. However, there is a plan of study that deals with applied math (it's the only one that requires complex analysis) and it is the toughest of the traditional options a student can take. Applied math people take courses like Linear Algebra 2 and Differential Equations 2 which deal with applications.

I'm doing applied math because I like it even though i'm not big on analysis. How much you enjoy analysis and abstract algebra should tell you whether you are more of a pure or applied man. You'll like them if you are into pure and if you aren't too fond of them, you know you are the applied kind.
Pure mathematicians generally look down on applied mathematicians because they think it is tougher. And, of course, they are right.

Purdue has an excellent reputation for analysis and abstract algebra. But this is at the graduate level. Of course, i'm sure this filters down to the undergraduate level. The graduate reputation for applied math is also good. However, at the undergraduate level, these reputations are not even the slightest bit relevant. They are relevant only to PhD candidates who are looking to research these special areas at universities or for people who are deciding where to do their PhD research. Undergraduate math majors all pretty much do the same stuff. For and undergrad, it's like asking which school has a better reputation for teaching calculus 1 (differentiation).

4)You need not worry about how much math you know. You just need to work hard at school. You can even start at trigonometry in college and major in math. You should do the most basic analysis course first to see if you'd like to stay in math. At purdue, this is ma 301. All math concentrations have to do MA341 (the second-most basic analysis course. 301 is basically prep for 341 and other analysis courses). However, only one analysis course is required in the statistics, computer science, and business math concentrations. so if you don't love analysis, you might look into those.

College math is VERY different from high school math, calculus apart.

If you want money, go with engineering. EE is tough and very satisfying. Do math if you are not terribly worried about money (many jobs pay very well but many don't). Chances are, when you are right out of school, you will make less than an engineer. I definitely think math is the more(and perhaps the most in college) satisfying major to do. It also requires less of a time commitment because of the lack of labs and the reduced requirements. (The reduced requirements make you more of an allround student that someone might like to have a conversation with at a dinner party 10 years from now unlike the EE major that will be playing with his circuits in the corner talking to noone.) However, math requries harder and smarter thinking. It is about as tough to a lot tougher(depending on the concentration) than EE and ChemE and is a lot tougher than the other engineerings.

Important note: Fear of analysis prevents many physics majors(and others) from getting a minor in math. And we all know how hard physics is.

5888901

thanks man that was real helpful. I still have a question or two though if you wouldnt mind clearing them up. So i can't say 100% sure but i think I am definitely more interested in a Math major than an engineering one. While i dont know the exact specifics of the kind of math ill be doing, i do feel like in college ill be able to buckle down and do well if i work hard enough. But what are the job opportunities for an undergrad in math? I probably wouldnt get a Masters right away and would need to find a fairly well paying job as money is becoming tight. Is their room for growth in this field? I am very interested in the world and in cutting edge developments and i would hope majoring in math will put me near the forefront of this future of change thats encroaching upon us. Also are you yourself planning on leaving college with just a undergrad or are sticking around for graduate studies? Thanks i hope you understand my questions.

EuroBoilerMaker

"The reduced requirements make you more of an allround student that someone might like to have a conversation with at a dinner party 10 years from now unlike the EE major that will be playing with his circuits in the corner talking to noone"

Lol, have you ever talked to a EE? We don't really tend to carry our circuits around. Honestly, I personally did think most EEs would be super geeks who can't hold a conversation if their lives depended on it. But after being in the department for two years now, I've been so surprised by how well-rounded most kids are.

I can't really say much about the math major. But my advice is that if you're unsure about engineering/math, try both of them your freshman year and then make a decision. One person will like math more, the other will like engineering more. But in the end, it all comes down to what you like.

Job opportunities for EEs (and other engineers) are plenty. And yes, we do have some difficulty doing a minor. But I think that really depends on your time commitment. For example, I'm very involved in a campus organization, I'm a TA for a class, I do research and I'm involved in a phone application project. All the while, I have a pretty fulfilling social life. Other EEs might do less, but get a minor in Math, Psychology, etc. or even double major with Physics. But yes, we definitely don't have the luxury of a triple major. So in that sense, Math is definitely more flexible.

But I don't know if sciences is genuinely tougher than engineering. I took some higher level physics course as part of a minor and I thought the classes were easier than engineering. They were tough, but definitely not tougher than the EE courses I took. I've heard similar accounts from my friends who are minoring in math. But then again, maybe we haven't taken the really hard physics/math classes yet.

indojin

Haha. My little circle of friends has two electrical engineers who bring their major-friends around often. All these guys talk about when are at the table is Fourier transforms and digital systems and what not. I was wrong, obviously. And, of course, there is a little bias. But my point was that you have less flexibility.

The engineers work longer hours but a lot of it is grunt work with labs and all that. I would definitely venture to say that the upper-level science courses are tougher. The math/physics minor requirements are actually quite pleasant (if that is an option).

Both majors are super-interesting.

It is far easier for an EE to get a well-paying job.
This is true for multiple reasons:
a) it is a high paying major anyway. On top of that,
b) it's a purdue engineering degree - it doesn't get much better


Math majors have a bunch of options. They can work in academia (which can be interesting), finance, and insurance. The most lucrative options for math majors are finance(investment banking, trading) and actuarial work. Actuaries work for insurance companies(generally) and, in a nutshell, quantify risk. Purdue has a special program for actuarial science. You get a double major in act. sci. and statistics if you do it. Actuaries have to pass independently administered tests. There are about ten of these for a "fully qualified" actuary but most college students are expected to have done only 2 or 3 by graduation time. Pretty much anyone who passes these tests can work in the actuarial field i.e. you don't need to major in actuarial science. It's SUPER tough to land an investment banking job. Trading is not as bad.
EE's get paid better in most situations. However, their salaries cap earlier. EEs make about 100-105k by the end of their careers. Actuaries hit about 200k. Their salaries also grow faster. Starting salaries are about the same or SLIGHTLY higher for EEs. They say that actuarial work is dull, though. I guess that is highly dependent on the individual.
If you want cutting edge, i'd go with EE again. These guys, esp. at Purdue, do truly marvelous things. The math majors are more into proofs and stuff like that. There isn't too much applied math at the undergrad level apart from in one or two courses. "Cutting edge" to me implied technology which is an EEs bread and butter.

I am an international student so I pretty much need a Masters to get a good job. The plan is to do a Masters in Math (specialization in computational finance). I am looking into trading. I love that kind of thing. It's a very sophisticated application of math. These guys get paid more than nearly all. The people who get into finance who apply knowledge gained using this degree are called "quants". These guys command sky-high salaries. About 120-150k out of grad school.

Another possibility for me is going into operations research (purdue math has a study plan for this too). It is VERY VERY interesting, to me. I absolutely love it. It uses a lot of the stuff you learn while getting the undergrad degree. But the pay is not nearly as much as a quant's pay.

Undergraduate math majors also work as computer scientists. Math and CS are very closely intertwined.

But "developments" and "cutting-edge" are words and phrases which, to me, connote engineering rather than math.

Note: Getting into grad school is tough as it is and it's tough to land a high-paying math job (barring actuarial work) right out of college. With an EE degree, you are pretty much guaranteed a very satisfying first paycheck.

I apologize for the organization of the answer but i hope it helped. If you need anything else, feel free to ask.

Jimgotkp

^ I agree. Most of my friends who are Math majors are double majoring in Computer Science or Engineering as well. One of my friends who majored in Math along with Elementary Education told me it was hell. His homework assignments were five questions that literally took hours and hours of work. It's ridiculous. If your going for a Math major might as well major in something else as well that will require the same Math classes your going to take.